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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

How many ackshully do wear 'em?

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Deas Plant.

11-08-2003 00:01:38




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Hi, Folks.
With one eye on BuickandDeere's post below and one eye on the "Days Since Last Lost Time Injury" board, I would like to put the question.

How many of us who operate machines with seat belts fitted ever actually wear them, all the time, sometimes, or even rarely?

I must admit that I have NEVER worn a seat belt on any machine, ever. Having said that, probably 95% or more of the machines I have operated didn't have them anyway.

Most of the later Cat scrapers I have operated had them (I try to stay off scrapers. They are for the young and silly.) and there is ONE Cat 941 loader in my current employer's fleet of ten 941's, 943's and 953's that has a seat belt.

O.K., so if you don't roll it, you don't need it, but having seen a few roll-overs, I can tell you for sure that there just plain AIN'T time to buckle it up on the way down.

I'd be interested to see the level of safety and seat belt awareness out there.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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Adam B.

11-09-2003 20:50:32




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
I do when I'm driving a car or truck. With tractors or backhoes, only on slopes that cause me concern.

My dad will never wear a seatbelt. He had an accident in 1980, when a compact car lost control while passing his semi. His truck was forced off the road, rolled over, then slid on its side quite a distance. He did have to have stitches to sew up a large gash on his head. However, the paramedics had to admit the seatbelt would have almost surely killed him, as the driver's seat was folded in half and jammed under the dash and the driver's door crumpled in against it. Instead, he just tumbled around in the cab when it went over.

When mandatory seatbelt law was passed, I remember commercials with highway patrolmen saying, 'I've never unbuckled a dead person from a crash.' That may be true, but I'm pretty sure when a crash kills someone (who was wearing a seat belt), they cut the person out of the wreckage almost every time. Just a thought.

Anyway, I feel its up to the operator to choose to use it or not. A seatbelt may improve the chance of surviving a crash, but I haven't seen statistics of how many people have been killed because of the seat belt. Wearing one isn't a guarantee, so using the belt should be the choice of the individual.

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John S-B

11-09-2003 20:36:58




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
When I'm driving my pickup or the van-always. The farmall does'nt have them so it's a moot point there. Some times I use the neighbors jd 4115 but it's so flat here that there almost no chance to roll it. I usally use it for aeration or to plow snow so I don't go fast. If I'm using something like a bobcat with rops I usually use belts. This may sound strange but I rarely wear seat belts riding in the fire truck or rescue. there's too much stuff to put on and it barely fits when I get all my gear on. I always wear it if I'm driving though.

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Dan in Ore

11-09-2003 02:29:26




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
I was with the local volunteer fire department for several years and saw enough to indicate that wearing seat belts was a good idea. Now in Oregon it is the law.

I operate a Cat 950 with a seat belt and have it buckled before it ever moves. It is company policy and OSHA rules. I would probably wear it even if not forced to.

Dan



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In Iowa

11-09-2003 11:01:57




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 Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Dan in Ore, 11-09-2003 02:29:26  
I bought my first dozer D6 Caterpillar about 5 years ago. I had no experience with a dozer but lots of ditchs to fill and level. I had filled a ravine and was packing the down side of the fill going forward, got to the bottom of the ravine and hit the reverser lever to back up, pulled the clutch back at full throttle and nearly ended up on the hood of the D6 9u, grabing anything I could. I have since put a good seat belt on. I use the seat belt for steep terraces and building dams. It will be a life saver, besides the exhaust pipe could brand a guy.

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uglykid

11-09-2003 00:15:43




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
Unfortunately your poll is a little biased...

because a number of people, that would swear to never wear a seat belt, are not around anymore.

So, the only ones able to respond are the ones that belt up and the "Lucky" ones.

I belt up every chance I get, I don't consider myself that lucky....



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Deas Plant.

11-09-2003 04:23:32




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 Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to uglykid, 11-09-2003 00:15:43  
Hi, Uglykid. I respectfully disagree. The question is not biased. I asked how many ackshully do wear 'em. The question was NOT how many people do not wear them, so it doesn't apply to those who are no longer here to answer it because of their past mistakes. It only applies to those who are smart enough to take the precaution to save themselves in the event of the unforseen.

You have a wonderful day. Best wishes. Deas Plant.

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JohN 50

11-08-2003 17:36:31




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
I have operated just about every kind of earth moving equipment made and I very seldom ever used the seat belt. Only when the old pucker factor got REAL bad would I buckle up.... I was lucky!



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T.J.-N.J.

11-08-2003 16:45:53




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
Been wearing one ever since I fell asleep plowing snow after three days of plowing and spreading salt n sand, Decided to close my eyes for a second and fell asleep with the truck in drive. I idled across the empty parking lot for probably almost a quarter mile until the plow found a concrete parking stop and threw me into the windshield breaking my nose 2 fingers and the windshield, decided to give up plowing after that. Good thing the office was closed for the weekend Could have been a real tragedy If I ran someone over. Just my 2 cent's worth T.J.

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Nolan

11-08-2003 15:16:39




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
I always wear the seat belts. Been known to refuse rides in vehicles that didn't have them.



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RJ-AZ

11-08-2003 11:01:14




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
Newer equipment that is equiped with a ROPS makes it almost mandatory to wear a seat belt. You cannot get away fast enough to escape the canopy. On a machine with ROPS, glass and doors you may be contained but will suffer cuts and bruises or still be ejected. We have had several cases of loaders laying over and because of MANDATORY seat belt and hard hat requirments all the operators walked away. I did roll a Allis D15 w/loader (no ROPS or seat belt) and was able to bail out and roll to safety. But I was a whole lot younger (15) then and a seasoned rough stock rodeo hand AKA Dumb Cowboy.

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Brent in IA

11-09-2003 07:23:55




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 Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to RJ-AZ, 11-08-2003 11:01:14  
Here at the University we have mandatory tractor training every year for anyone who is going to drive a tractor on University land. They tell you NOT to wear a seatbelt if there is no ROPS because you will be trapped and crushed for sure. They also MANDATE you do wear one if you have a ROPS or ROPS cab because (they illustrate the physics/geometry for you) it will hold you in the safe zone even in a complete roll-over, and as others have mentioned you can't jump clear with a ROPS/cab in the way very easily even if you had time to think about jumping.

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JOHN (LA)

11-08-2003 11:40:43




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 Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to RJ-AZ, 11-08-2003 11:01:14  
Hard hats in a machine with ROPS? NO NO NO! not me.



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Rich in Iowa

11-08-2003 10:35:05




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
Well stated Chris! -I agree. Some of these "legal beagles" probably wear seat belts to bed and drive without one if the real truth were known.



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JOHN (LA)

11-08-2003 10:08:04




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
Well I have operated every thing from a bobcat skid steer to a Mantiwoc 4100 and I will say I never use a seat belt on anything but a skid steer and a road vechical. All ways on a skid steer!!!
If you ask a friction operator why he does not wear a seat belt he will tell you so he can jump!! All though that would be hard to do with the new equiptment with arm rest and hyd. controls in the arm rest; door closed because of A/C ect.

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Taylor Lambert

11-09-2003 08:26:27




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 Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to JOHN (LA), 11-08-2003 10:08:04  
John I agree with you on the friction cranes, the first time i had to walk one one a job my friend training me didnt tell me that you had to manually hold a 5299 American in gear. needless to say my seat belt slowed my attemped escape. I ended up riding it to the bottom of the slope ramp. THe next time i wlked it I had the door latched back seat belt off and my hand firmly locked on the drive lever.

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JOHN (LA)

11-09-2003 13:43:28




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 Re: Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Taylor Lambert, 11-09-2003 08:26:27  
Yes a friction crane or any large crane is not like running a trackhoe or a dozer all together differant ball game.
Had a crew driving 16" 150 ft long piles on a job once. Crane was turnbuckled to a spud barge. They had set about 6 piles in a template and was picking up the leads and hammer. One of the turnbuckles broke. They were within standards so there was no chance of a turn over but from the jolt of the buckel breaking every one was scattering. I can tell you the operator would have been the FIRST ONE to saftey it had been called for. No fun riding a 4100 vicon to the bottom of the Mississippi in 50 ft of water.

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Taylor Lambert

11-10-2003 22:31:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to JOHN (LA), 11-09-2003 13:43:28  
John this is a bit off topic but what is the Vicon contols, is it push pull levers. THe second crane I learned to operate was a 222 Manitowoc with epic controls. It had a wobble stick for swing and boom, then 2 straight levers for the main drum and secondary or a fairlead. THey could be used as a normal hydraulic or had a free fall mode to. The 5299 I operated Had to be walked onto the barge every morning One morintg the laborers unhooked my moorings and the barge tried to leave in a about a half second I had it dogged off and was comming out of the engine room door oon the rear catwalk. My least favorite experience going to the barge was walking down with 60 feet off boom down a 2 o 1 slope and the swing brake letting goe I just kinda swung around counter weight down hill. Id like to get ack on a crane soon or try my hand with a dragline.

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JOHN (LA)

11-12-2003 04:02:12




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em in reply to Taylor Lambert, 11-10-2003 22:31:40  
The older friction mantiowac were vicon. I guess you could say it is like the fore front of the modern push pull power down.
The way it worked was..... .
You pulled the drum lever down into the lifting position let go of the brake and with a heavy load it would come down. If you gave it a little throttle it would go up.
The way it works is that it made the load pull through the draw works or gears even to go down. It would not work with light loads because they did not have the weight to pull threw the draw works so you could turn the vicon off. But if you had a heavy load you could hold it by riding the brake and throttle. See a true power down works like hyd does today. You can dump the brake and it will only come down as fast as the engine is running.
Since it did not have power down this was just another way of allowing you to hold very heavy loads and not rely on just the friction of the brakes.

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Bus Driver

11-08-2003 10:03:41




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
First day using my Bobcat 610- an old model- was wearing the belt and the machine started to tip over forward. The belt helped me stay in position at the controls and use the bucket to stop the tipping. I do use the belts. Christmas Eve 1956, I saw a 1952 Buick 4 door t-boned in the rear door and quarter panel on the driver side. The driver door was still operable. The driver, young Air Force enlistee home on leave, bounced out the driver door and died instantly from head injuries when it hit the pavement. I believe that a belt would have made the injuries less severe- but cars were not so equipped at that time.

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Sid

11-08-2003 09:32:18




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
I agree they should be worn, and I wear mine. I think the employer has the right to insist that they be worn. But I do not like seat belt laws per say that entitle police to ticket you for not wearing one.



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Brutus

11-08-2003 08:27:50




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
always in a motor vehicle on the road
rarely when off road

always when in a skidsteer
never on anything else

-brutus-



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FarmallH42

11-08-2003 08:11:28




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
I wear seatbelt in the vehicles ALL the time, no matter what!

Tractors are a different story, I wear the belt when working at a dangerous angle, otherwise not.



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greenbeanman

11-08-2003 06:31:49




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
When I was a senior in high school in 1965, I asked my parents for a seat belt for my old car.
I installed it the next day and have been wearing seat belts every since.

If I'm hooking up an implement I may move a few feet without fastening it, but otherwise it is securing me in place.

A scraper rolling over isn't a pretty sight. A '23
rolled over when I was working on a by pass project. Welll I say rolled over, luckily it rolled onto its side and not completely over. You can bet the operator felt glad to have his belt fastened.

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john d

11-08-2003 18:04:26




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 Re: Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to greenbeanman, 11-08-2003 06:31:49  
Your sentiments are probably the closest to mine of anyone who's posted to this so far. I put seatbelts in my car in 1961 when I was still in high school, and I'll bet I haven't ridden 10 un-buckled miles total since then in anything that had belts! ONE bad accident was enough to teach me. A few years later I got a skull fracture while building a pole barn on our farm. When I healed up from that, I bought a hard hat, and if I'm doing work on something where things can fall on me, I wear it! Those skull fractures aren't all they're cracked up to be!

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Chris

11-08-2003 06:10:28




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 Re: How many ackshully do wear 'em? in reply to Deas Plant., 11-08-2003 00:01:38  
I am AWARE of them all right. The seatbelts plastic sleeve on our froklift pokes me right in the side of the butt every time I use it! Seriously I will use them when I feel I am doing work that the possibility of a tip is present. Always kind of felt that seatbelt laws were to make it easier for the rescue crew to locate the body. Then I had a situation occur in my truck where I would have had a BAD accident if I had not been wearing my belt. Had to hit the brakes so hard that I would have slid off the seat if it had not been for my belt holding me in place. Allowed me to stay in control and drive out of harms way. It good that they are on the machine but to have them required to operate the machine is a bit too much. You have to be mothered to be safe and wear your seatbelt to operate a machine that could do HOW much damage in the hands of a dangerous operator?? Too many lawyers and not enough brains in the world! I think there are too many laws and not enough common sense these days!

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