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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What does RESTORED really mean ???

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Alberta Mike

10-16-2003 13:36:42




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Often wondered about the use of the word "restored" when I see tractor ads, articles, or descriptions. I've often referred to my tractors as being restored, but lately I have used the word "refurbished" since most often I just mechanically fix up what is needed with lots of cleaning, painting, and general fixing-up. What does the word "restore" really mean to you?




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JOHN (LA)

10-17-2003 14:56:32




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
You asked what does it mean to me. Well many people use these terms loosely but personly to me the terms mean.
Restored-- Totally gone thru with factory approved parts and brought back to show room condition. Very hard if not impossible to do.
Refurbished-- This is where most TOTAL redo jobs fall. Totally gone thru but some parts work but are not factory quality. IE: after market parts. Quality paint job but color does not quite match original color. Tractor is still in origial condition IE: 6 volt ect.
Rebuilt or gone thru-- This is where I think you and many others fall. This would be a honest redo of known problems. IE; engine smoked so I rebuilt, Trans had no noise so I did not tear down and check every componet just changed oil. replaced origanal 6 volt system with a usable 12 volt system. Tach ect does not work but is not needed for tractor use so I left it alone. This would include a quality paint job or still good paint.
Painted-- This is a term I think no one will ever use but sadly it is how some work. This is a cover up job that would be hard to even give a out of site guaranty; because you would be lucky to be out of site before some thing went wrong.

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G-MAN

10-17-2003 10:25:01




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
In a nutshell? Whatever the potential seller can pursuade the potential buyer it means. Of course, that definition frequently changes after the sale.



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TO35

10-17-2003 03:03:03




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
I have "restored" over 30 tractors. Like indydirtfarmer says it can mean several different things to different people. There are different degree's of restoration in my opnion,most people want mechanicaly sound and visibly correct. Some want updated parts orther than orignal,and visibly apealing...or a combination of all...since its nearly imposible to restore to orignal condition due to wear on parts you can not get anymore maybe "refurbish" is a better term. To me mechanicaly rebuilt and visibly correct is close enough to be called restored.
best wishes...
TO

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Indydirtfarmer

10-17-2003 02:47:24




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
No "clear-cut" definition. With restored, you get "partially restored", "fully restored", and about a million other variations on the theme. The one that gets me is, "Restored better than new" (How is that possible?) Everyone has THEIR "restored". I am in the middle of "redoing" a 1957 Massey Ferguson 50. It started off so innocent. Just fix it up, and give it a paint job. (So I proclaimed!). Now we're talking over 100 hours (so far) in SANDBLASTING alone. (And I'm only 1/2 done) This was a VERY original, and complete WORKING tractor. It will be as close to "new" as 46 years, and my abilities will take it. To me, THAT'S restored. To the next person, a few minutes with a pressure washer, and a new muffler, and that's THEIR restored. I'm sure that so called "experts" will tell you what is what, but for my $0.02, it's whatever makes you happy. Enjoy "restoring", working, playing, or whatever you do with old tractors. That's the important thing

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JMS/MN

10-16-2003 23:03:52




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
To me, totally restored would mean bringing it back to the condition it was when it left the factory. Engine and drive train should be within manufacturer's tolerances.



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Clem

10-16-2003 20:04:57




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
I don't have a good definition but the guy who "wrote the book" on tractor restoration is Rufus Windrow. If anyone has a good definition it would be him.



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Paul in Mich

10-16-2003 18:03:12




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
From all that I've read on the subject, there are "restored" tractors, "reconditioned" tractors, and "modified" tractors. Restored tractors are totally disassembled, worn parts replaced with new or used O.E.M. parts, and finished to specs., and appearance to what it was from the factory. This is very hard to do, as many parts are not available to accomplish a pure restoration. Reconditioned tractors are made mechanically sound, even though they may not be as they were from the factory, nevertheless a quality tractor. They may even have a paint job far superior to a factory job, but not a factory quality paint job. Serial numbers on castings or engine parts may or may not match. Modified tractors are obviously made to be something that they were not meant to be from the factory such as purposely increased horse power, added features such as 3 point hitchs, live hydraulics, tire sizes, 12 volt systems, if these features werent factory options. As one can imagine, a true restoration is very unforgiving, therefore, the vast majority of so called restored tractors are indeed reconditioned. Having said all this, I hope we folks dont get so caught up in the definitions that we fail to appreciate the fact that every tractor that gets a new lease on life, no matter what stage it is in, is one that cheats the fence row.

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RayP(MI)

10-16-2003 17:20:55




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
third party image

Can mean everything from walking past it with a spraycan to absolute, total, complete, teardown - with replacement of virtually all moving parts. No matter how you define it, some one is going to take the opinion that your job isn't satisfactory. I took my licks a while back when my 18yr old son refurbished (can't use the term RESTORED) since some one poined out an oil leak. Some definitions of restoration require that the result looks better than any that ever came from the factory - museum quality... You'd never even want to drive these in a parade. Let's face it, the tractors sure weren't perfect coming out of the factory, and if you're going to use it at all, it won't stay "restored" long. I figure that if it's running well, there's no use repairing what isn't worn. After all, new old tractors had cosmetic flaws, and leaked from the factory! Guess it depends on what you want to use your "restored" tractor for, is it a one of a kind like the JD Dain, or is it a common Farmall H? Is it going to be a show piece, or earn it's place in the shed by working? I thought the boy did an exemplary job!

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Farmered

10-17-2003 05:03:38




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 Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to RayP(MI), 10-16-2003 17:20:55  
Ray, you mentioned another controversial word, teardown. I had a prof. in a college engine class who insisted that we use a very proper "disassemble" when we spoke of removing parts from a machine or engine. He said teardown was for junk yards and we were engaged in a finer art. I have been sensative to that ever since. Ed



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Allan

10-17-2003 06:00:35




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 Re: Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Farmered, 10-17-2003 05:03:38  
Hi,

I can relate to that.

Years ago, when I worked for Rosen Novak Chevrolet in Omaha which was a huge concern, I took a terrible chewing out one day because I had used the term "fixed" in front of a customer.

Also, the term "used car" was not allowed.

I was informed that the proper terms are "repaired" and "previously owned" repectfully.

Hmmmmm, well excuse me!!! LOL

Allan



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mike in new mexico

10-17-2003 07:14:57




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Allan, 10-17-2003 06:00:35  
Allen, is that the same Rosen Novak in Denver Colorado ? I have a sister that worked for him for years in the car business,he was killed about two weeks ago.



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Allan

10-17-2003 08:56:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean in reply to mike in new mexico, 10-17-2003 07:14:57  
Hi Mike,

Yes, they are one in the same. Which one was killed? Was it Art? Nathen? Was it one of the Rosens or one of the Novaks?

They also (when I worked for them) had a Ford concern out in LA.

Thanks for the info,

Allan



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mike in new mexico

10-17-2003 20:45:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What does RESTORED really in reply to Allan, 10-17-2003 08:56:05  
Allen, I checked with "The Denver Post' web site and his name was Justyn Rosen, 79 years old.good article- mike



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mike in new mexico

10-17-2003 19:47:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What does RESTORED really in reply to Allan, 10-17-2003 08:56:05  
Allen, it was one of the Rosens,I'll ask which one the next time I hear from the "Denver bunch" e-mail me and I'll tell you what happened.
mike



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mike in new mexico

10-16-2003 18:00:18




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 Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to RayP(MI), 10-16-2003 17:20:55  
Ray- I remember when you posted that picture and believe me when I say that I was proud of your son !!! My definition of restored is' Field ready'. My son and I took our tractors to the local ag-expo this February.My son took his 41 case and I took my 49 John Deere 'A'. We didn't have all the dents rolled out and we had our oil leaks- or atleast I did. and the crowd seemed to love mine and could identify with it !When we had the little parade my tractor was the ONLY one that the lights worked!There was JD's there that was better then new, but I found out that the owners had drained the oil out of the powr-trols and power lifts to eliminate any possible OIL leaks. By the way--my son's case SC made the front page of the local news paper ! Tell your son "way to go"-mike

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730-LP

10-16-2003 17:47:01




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 Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to RayP(MI), 10-16-2003 17:20:55  
Ray call it restored, refurbished ,redone or anything you want to, looks good to me and I think your son should be proud of it, and you should be proud of him for being intrested in something worth while.Help him get another one if he wants it,sure helps you to know where your kids are and what they are doing. tractors are a lot cheaper than lawyers are.



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Bob

10-16-2003 16:47:20




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
Unfortunately to some of these guys "restored" means new paint and the tires are aired up. Some of them paint the wheels with a spray can and leave overspray all over the tires. I suppose they don't wipe their bums either....but I know they have no idea what "Restored" really means.



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Nebraska Cowman

10-16-2003 16:31:26




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
If tou start with a dead tractor and bring it bak to life ain't that restored?



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carpenter

10-16-2003 15:15:37




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
Restored is a term that suffers much abuse.
Automobile restorations require a great deal more authenticity than tractors to have a respectable restoration. It should look, operate and have the same flaws as a knew one. I have recently purchased a 730D with 1295 actual documentable hours. It runs and looks outstanding but still requires a lot of money before I would call it Restored.



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GP

10-16-2003 13:58:02




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
According to Webster's dictionary:
Restore - To put or bring back into existence or use
- To bring back to or put back into a former or original state

This can be pretty broadly interpreted, thus the confusion when things are advertised as restored. I usually interpret it to mean good paint and good mechanical condition, unless it states that it is restored to like new condition. It's always best to ask what was done as part of the restoration as different people have different ideas of what restored means. As you can see from the actual definition it can mean anything from making useful again to making like new again. Restoration, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

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big fred

10-16-2003 13:50:49




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 Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to Alberta Mike, 10-16-2003 13:36:42  
I'm probably in the minority here, but to me restored means the bearings, etc are all refurbished to be within tolerances for new parts, all seals and gaskets are replaced, no bondo on the sheetmetal, all new tires, clutch and brakes and the paint is the same color, but more importantly, the same type, as when the tractor was new. In other words, Imron paint might be pretty, and it might last longer than the original, but it ain't restoration.

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Rc

10-18-2003 18:27:36




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 Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to big fred, 10-16-2003 13:50:49  
Does this mean aii new gears to. My pet peeve is a restored Ford 2n or 9n with ared belly! Rc



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Rc

10-18-2003 17:06:23




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 Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to big fred, 10-16-2003 13:50:49  
Does this mean aii new gears to. My pet peeve is a restored Ford 2n or 9n with ared belly! Rc



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CJ

10-16-2003 16:01:23




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 Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to big fred, 10-16-2003 13:50:49  
If you don't put bondo on the sheetmetal - how do you take care of pitting? You either have to use bondo or new sheetmetal neither of witch are original. In that case something can never be resored 100%.



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rustyfarmall

10-16-2003 15:34:29




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 Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to big fred, 10-16-2003 13:50:49  
Big Fred, I agree with you 100%.



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Charles Houston

10-16-2003 17:47:41




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 Re: Re: Re: What does RESTORED really mean ??? in reply to rustyfarmall, 10-16-2003 15:34:29  
restored means back to new or better than new.



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