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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Tires

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Scott-Missouri

10-04-2003 19:41:57




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My question may seem trivial, but I wan't sure of where to turn for this. My grandfather had a tire on his tractor blow out and would like to have a replacement. He bought this rather old tractor for $200 a few years ago and doesn't want to spend much on a tire if possible. I was able to find a tire that I think might work, but don't really know how to read the numbers on the tire to determine if it is close enough for use. The old tire has the following information on it: 12,4/11-24 6 Ply rating. Can anyone tell me what the 12,4 means? I found a tire that states: 11-24 8 Ply rating, but it does NOT have anything in front of the 11-24. What do all of the numbers mean and do you think the tire I found would be close enough for use?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

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Ray,IN

10-05-2003 21:05:33




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 Re: Tires in reply to Scott-Missouri, 10-04-2003 19:41:57  
I copied this article from YT a couple years ago. It fully explains tire sizes-then and now.

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Tire Sizes and Antique Tractors

After going to some shows, I have noticed what I perceive as a problem with restorers and the rear tire ! sizes they select for their restorations. the problem seems to stem from the progression of numbers used I in tire sizes over the years.

Having worked for Good Year at their tractor tire manufacturing plant in Freeport, Illinois for 17 years, and on tractor tire molds in particular for a number of years, I would like to share what I have learned over the years regarding rear tractor tire sizes.

When rubber tires were first mounted on tractors, nearly all were mounted on eight inch wide rims, and the numerical sizes on the tires reflected this. After rubber tires on tractors became more accepted, it was discovered that wider rims contributed to better tire performance. The wider rims actually made the tire wider, because the beads were no longer pulling the tire together. Now tires labeled 11.25 were 13 inches across at the shoulders. The tread was allowed to flatten out some and the tires became more efficient. The industry resized the numbers on the tire to reflect the new recommended rim width.

As an example, lets use an 11.25-24 tire as used on the early WC's with eight inch wide wheels. This became a 13-24 when used on a twelve inch wide rim. This seems to be the same exact tire, from basically the same mold as the old 11.25-24, but I renumbered to reflect the recommended use on the wider rim, and the corresponding increase in effective tread width gained by i the wide rim. Later on, in the late 50's or early SO"S, the tire manufacturers again renumbered their tires. Now the numbers i referred to over all carcass width when mounted on the recommended rim width. Now our 13-24 has grown to a 14.9-24. Keep ! in mind this is still the same physically sized tire from basically the same mold, just an new numbering system.

A rundown of the evolution of a few typical sizes are as follows:

old 8" rim wider rim new measurement

11.25-24 became 13-24 became 14.9-24

12.75-28 became 14-28 became 16.9-28

13.5-28 became 15-28 became 18.4-28

The tires on each line were the same size, were formed in basically the same molds, but were numbered differently to reflect, first, the increase in recommended rim widths, then to reflect over all carcass width rather than shoulder to shoulder width across the tread. If you will notice, some real old tires will have both sizes on them. I have a pair of Goodrich that show 13-24, replaces 11.25-24. It should also be noted that the tire industry adopted a more aggressive tread pattern about the time the first size change went into effect. Also you must remember that rear tractor tires evolved from existing sizes used on aircraft. So there may have been a slight increase in physical size when molds used exclusively for tractor use came about.

Most restorers are aware of the second change, but few are aware of the first change. They go to the original owners manual under tires and see 13.5-28, and purchase a set of 14.9-28 tires thinking they have the proper original size, not realizing the 193713.5-28, is now actually an 18.4-28. If this seems like a big jump, you must remember, the 18.4-28 has a recommended rim width of 16 inches, DOUBLE the width of the original rim used for this tire in 1937. You squeeze those beads together by eight inches, the tread shoulders will probably come in that inch and a half. Remember the first two sizes are based on TREAD width. the last is based on overall CARCASS width.

.hope I have shed some light on rear tractor tire sizes, and their evolution over 65 years or so, and if you thought some tractors at shows looked odd because the rear tires seemed small, you were probably right. The restorers used the best information they had, and should not be faulted for this common mistake. Although I am no expert, I am someone very familiar with the rear tire industry , and have come to these conclusions from studying tire sizes on old tires for a number of years.

In conclusion, if a tire looks to be small when put on your tractor and looks odd, you may be justified in using a larger size, without feeling you are not putting an "original" size on it.

Happy restorations

Link

10/2/01

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Scott-Missouri

10-06-2003 04:26:26




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 Re: Re: Tires in reply to Ray,IN, 10-05-2003 21:05:33  
Thanks so much for all your help. It seems that everyone had the same data and it is greatly appreciated. I will be picking up the tire to day and will try to get back on here to let you all know how it works out.

Again, Thank You Very Much.

Scott



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Kennyp

10-05-2003 14:23:08




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 Re: Tires in reply to Scott-Missouri, 10-04-2003 19:41:57  
OK you young guys..close enough. Old days 11x24. Years ago they started advertising "super cushion" tires. 12.4x24 is a little wider at the sides. Should be same diamater and tread width. I would mention that different makes can vary in actual size. I once stood two 700x16 tires side by side. the high priced one was an inch taller and weighed 5 or 10 pounds more. I would try to match treads though. Good luck.

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oleblu

10-05-2003 06:24:51




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 Re: Tires in reply to Scott-Missouri, 10-04-2003 19:41:57  
Scott, check some salvage yards that have combines. Those "small" 24" tires were used on lots of JD combine steer axles in about the 7720 era. Probably could get a decent one for $50-75. oleblu



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JMS/MN

10-05-2003 01:43:30




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 Re: Tires in reply to Scott-Missouri, 10-04-2003 19:41:57  
Many years ago the industry changed the rating system from rim width to cross-sectional tire width. About 1960, and some will argue just when that was. But, with the old size marking system an 11-24 was for an 11 inch wide rim, 24 inches in diameter. The cross-sectional width (the bulge, not the tread width) was 12.4 inches. So a new tire will be marked 12.4 x 24, and fits properly on an 11 inch rim. Generally you can go one inch wider or narrower on a rim without problems, but it is recommended that both tires match.

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ChrisL

10-04-2003 20:37:40




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 Re: Tires in reply to Scott-Missouri, 10-04-2003 19:41:57  
I think I know what it means

my 75 hp front wheel assist tractor has that size on the front - they are about waist high

it is a tire that is 12.4 inches wide (the 12.4) but it is made for an 11 inch wide rim (the 11) and the rim should be 24" in diameter

a plain 11-24 might be a little narrower but should be OK -



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Steve

10-04-2003 20:44:51




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 Re: Re: Tires in reply to ChrisL, 10-04-2003 20:37:40  
LOL didnt think of front wheel assist Chris but your right should work ok



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Steve

10-04-2003 20:33:35




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 Re: Tires in reply to Scott-Missouri, 10-04-2003 19:41:57  
the tire you have found is the right size . 11-24 is the size of the tire im not sure what the 12,4 is unless its a traction designation ,like rice and cane or somehing like that If it was me and i was unsure of the size id take a tape measure to the old one and then see if the measurements match
also look at the tread pattern on the old vs new are they close?



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