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Gaskets?

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Sean W

07-06-2003 00:09:28




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Didn't know what to put for the title, but I need some advice. When restoring a tractor, and say for example you are putting gaskest in the engine, how do you keep them from leaking? What I mean is I restored my 1949 Farmall H back in the summer of 2000, and it looked great fresh out of the shop. I use it for a work tractor, but the gaskets are leaking, whats the proper thing I should have done so they wouldn't have leaked? I was inexperienced when I restored the H and it was my first restoration. But I put the gaksets on dry and by themselves. Should I have used a gasket compound? The surfaces were good and smooth and no old gaskets. If you use gasket compound how long should it cure? Please help, I want to restore a different tractor in the near future, and I want to get it looking good, and not leaking oil anywhere. Thanks!

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mj

07-07-2003 07:18:09




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 Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 00:09:28  
Ya know...I tried all those silly-con compounds and went back to the old tried and true #2 Permatex for all oil and coolant gaskets. :-)



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Wayne

07-06-2003 18:55:52




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 Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 00:09:28  
I've built everything from inline 6 cyl Murphy diesels, to 8V-92 Detroits, to Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engines, and I can tell you from experience that one of the most important things is to make sure that the gasket surfaces are clean. I always use the Scotch Rol-Lok discs for this. Just make sure you use the right disc for the type of metal to insure you just clean the surface and don't gouge it. As far as a sealer to put on the gasket, the best thing I've found, especially on oil pans and things like that is a THIN film of Ultra Blue or Ultra Copper. ANYTHING but plain old silicone, since it tends to squeeze out into places it shouldn't be and can block ports, etc, causing problems later. On larger gaskets that need something to hold them in place, then use something like Copper Coat as some have mentioned. Suprisingly enough on some of the "foreign" engines like the Yanmars, they don't even use gaskets, instead they use what is best described as a gasket compound that is almost like Loctite. You simply smear it on and assembly the part, and it seals from there. For head gaskets, it's not normally recomended to use anything unless the manual specifically calls for a sealer, and then it's usually limited to use around oil drain back ports, water ports, etc. Lastly as has already been mentioned, the correct torque is also important. Usually the factory torque specs take into account the diameter/size of the fastener as well as the length (affects how much it can stretch), as well as the grade, and also the material it is threaded into. If you don't have the factory specs, you can often use a standard chart as a guide, but even that isn't always reliable. Some mfgs don't actually give torque specs for things like head bolts, but rather rely on different methods such as streching the bolt,ie- giving a spec such as tightening to a specific torque and then going so many degrees tighter to strech it. It's things like this that can often make building an engine a challange. Still with time and experience it isn't all that hard. The main thing is to realize that somewhere out there somebody built it, and if your willing to ask questions, you can do just as good a job as the factory.
Good luck on your future projects. Wayne

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wdTom

07-06-2003 16:34:59




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 Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 00:09:28  
I mostly agree with what the others have said, but will add. I use a THIN film of one of the silicone gasket makers or sealers on a lot of gaskets. It seals but doisn't stick too bad when you hve to take them off. I too have heard of and sometimes use grease. One impoetant thing with sheetmetal amd some castings is to check them for a flat true gasket surface. Oil pans,and valve covers seem to get overtightened and sprung out of true. Some carefull work with a hammer and an anvil or some such can straighten them out most of the time. Then don't tighten them enough to spring them again.

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Tim

07-06-2003 08:16:58




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 Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 00:09:28  
Did you retorque after running the motor for a few hours? Those old style gaskets have to be retorqued.



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Sean W

07-06-2003 11:22:29




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 Re: Re: Gaskets? in reply to Tim, 07-06-2003 08:16:58  
I didn't even torque it when I put it back together. I used the I&T manual for it, and looked for torque settings, and there was nothing there for torque settings. I never even thought of retightening the bolts and nuts. I will have to do better on the next engine.



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RAB

07-06-2003 15:26:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 11:22:29  
It's important in which order you tighten down the bolts - not just for the cylinder head which may be the most critical, but also any other long gaskets. If you trap the gasket or metal item in the wrong place you run the risk of expansion problems, warping, and leaky gaskets. Different size bolts and thread pitch will indicate a fair idea for the correct torque - just don't seriously overtighten and think that will help.
Regards, RAB

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Get Real Manuals

07-06-2003 15:08:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 11:22:29  
That is what you get for using cheapskate IT manual. Next time get the real manuals for your tractor.



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Sean W

07-06-2003 17:18:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Gaskets? in reply to Get Real Manuals, 07-06-2003 15:08:31  
What kind of manuals should I look for?



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Bob

07-06-2003 14:17:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 11:22:29  
So tighten them now. You might stop some of the leaks.



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Frank (n.mi.)

07-06-2003 06:08:00




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 Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 00:09:28  
I don't know if you're having trouble with one or two particular gaskets or what, but I've heard the old timers used to use heavy oil or even cup grease on engine gaskets. If you decide to use some kind of sealant do not use heavy bodied sealants, the lighter copper bodied sealants are the ones to use.



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Sean W

07-06-2003 11:28:40




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 Re: Re: Gaskets? in reply to Frank (n.mi.), 07-06-2003 06:08:00  
I think my grandfather told me to use lubricating grease or heavy oil. I did on some things, and it didn't leak, but some did. Mainly the front gear cover on the H's engine is whats leaking bad. The head gasket isn't leaking, and I've got even compression in the engine.



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TO-35Man

07-06-2003 06:05:22




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 Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 00:09:28  
I agree proper torque is paramount to a good seal but there are more things to check...it may look clean and flat but check it and you will know for sure, use a known straight edge and feeler guage to check flatness on block and head.Antoher common mistake is cleaning those surfaces with a grinder with sanding pad or wire brush attachment these will leave the surface uneven enough to cause a leak if your not careful. 3m makes a rubber pad gasket remover for use on small grinders they work good and dont distort surfaces.Always tap head bolt holes and check bolt thread pitch with a pitch guage or just run a proper size nut on it if you cant run nut on it by hand replace bolt after all its over 20 years old,also check bolt for pitting.Every time you torque bolt it stretches it may have reached it stretch limits ,if while torquing it, it pops or squeaks its time to replace it.I always use copper coat spray on sealer on all head gaskets and any gasket that is not cork and I also lightly spray head bolts or head studs only takes a little dab on each.I build a lot of engines and have not had one leak when I do this.
good luck on your next restortation hope this helps....

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Ducknose Bob

07-06-2003 04:21:52




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 Re: Gaskets? in reply to Sean W, 07-06-2003 00:09:28  
If the sealing surfaces were clean and undamaged, I would say the most likely problem is failing to properly tighten the fasteners. Invest in a good torque wrench and use it. Also clean the threads and run a tap into any blind holes to remove anything that might give a false indication of things being tight when in fact they are just binding on rust,dirt, or other trash.



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