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Baler Question

how many hp required

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Mike S

06-27-2003 19:09:56




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My wife moved me to the country, so I guess I have to farm. What HP is required to run a baler - and what tractor would you suggest?




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buickanddeere

06-29-2003 20:21:16




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
If you want excitment purchase a midway ride ticket, don't try living life on the edge while farming. For running a baler the tractor needs enough HP not to lug down and stall or pound U-joints while climbing hills. Enough weight and traction not to spin out or loose steering control hauling a baler and 5 tons of hay/wagon up hill. Or get pushed and jackknife on a down hill. Purchase a comfortable reserve rather than swap war stories of how you managed after sending a boy out to do a man's job.

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Rick

06-29-2003 06:51:02




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
I have a very nice Oliver 770 for sale it would work excellent on small square baler



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Mike

07-02-2003 07:04:50




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 Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Rick, 06-29-2003 06:51:02  
Let me know the details



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Bob

06-29-2003 05:57:36




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
I bale about 40-45 acres some of it on a relatively steep grade with a 48 Farmall H and John Deere 24T baler. It handles the baler just fine (I believe the H is only about 25 hp?). The only time I notice the plunger at all is going down hill, then it pushes just a little bit. To offset the lack of live pto I just spend a little extra time raking. I make sure I make smaller, more even winrows, and rarely have a problem plugging the baler.

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RayP(MI)

06-28-2003 14:25:26




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
Welllll l,,,, I hate to differ with some of my esteemed colleagues, but I've been bailing with a 49 JD B (24/27hp), no problems - pulling a NH 268 hayliner last year, and an Oliver 60 T this year - with wagon and two people on board! Also used a Farmall 200 on the Oliver (?19/21?hp). Worked OK, but the 2pt hitch had a lot of play, which allowed the baler to bob up and down quite a bit. Also ran a little short of traction on really steep hills with the Farmall, and dug up the sod a little. Neither of these tractors have live PTO, but with a little care, you can get along OK. NH baler had an overrunning clutch, which allowed getting PTO going, and then quickly shifting transmission into gear. My late uncle used a JD 50, and a JD 14T baler for years, on both his and our farms. So you can get along with a little less hp, if you're careful!

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dave K

06-28-2003 12:56:58




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
Well we baled 200 acres for years with a 25HP Allis Chalmers WD and an Allis Chalmers Roto baler. Makes nice small round bales can adjust the weight of the bale and how tight it bales. Used to load the hay wagons by hand with hand bale hooks. Baler ran from PTO. Used on lots of hill but we dumped bales on the ground. If pulling a wagon and loader should still be okay. I never stalled a WD in the lower gears anyway.

Dave

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ErnieD

06-28-2003 12:31:25




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
Flat land or hilly? 45 hp or 4000# is the minimum for hills, particularly if you are stacking on the trailing wagon or have a really big kicker wagon.



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paul

06-28-2003 08:40:42




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
30-35 hp is fine.

Heavy enough to handle the weight & rocking action of the plunger (not a modern compact-utility tractor - an old cast iron machine is better!).

You want live pto - 2-stage clutch or independent.

A good selection of slow gears is nice - a 5 speed is better than a 4 speed, an 8 or 10 speed is even better.

Color doesn't matter, just look for features. My IHC 300 row crop is great - 5 speed with TA (gives it 10 speeds), independent pto, heavy enough to handle the baler & wagon, about 36 hp.

A baler takes about 15 hp, moving the tractor & baler takes about 15 hp, and adding a wagon takes another 5hp. About.

You are talking a smaller hay field. Not a 100 acres or more. right?

--->Paul

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Mike S.

06-29-2003 20:29:39




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 Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to paul, 06-28-2003 08:40:42  
Just a few acres of hayfield. Enough for my kids 4-H projects - dairy beef and goats.



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paul

06-29-2003 20:39:30




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 Re: Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S., 06-29-2003 20:29:39  
You've had some good answers. I think you would be _happy_ with recommendations like mine, while you could _get by_ with less as others suggest. Guess that is up to you. :)

--->Paul



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Alton

06-28-2003 04:54:48




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
I have a 444 (36 h.p.)international diesel and a 268 New Holland baler. It will pull baler and hay wagon nicely except going down steep grade tends to push tractor.



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Bus Driver

06-28-2003 04:47:34




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
I doubt that my post will add much to the ones already posted, but there are two power requirements for a baler- one is to tow the baler, the other is to operate the baler mechanism. In the 50's, we used a New Holland with a 2 cylinder Wisconsin mounted on the baler. The engine was perhaps 15 hp. Pulled the baler with Super A or Ferguson TO-20. Some of the bigger wire balers used 4 cylinder Wisconsin of about 25 hp. I have no experience with the round balers. Some of the wire balers would make bales of soybean hay that weighed about 125 pounds- that is rough handling even with gloves.

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Roy in UK

06-28-2003 02:06:42




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
If you are refering to a conventional baler (ie small square )30- 40 hp I should say, not unless you are going to be using a high capacity baler like a JD459! The only advantage in using a bit bigger tractor (60-70 hp )is the whole outfit would not rock back and forth with each plunger stroke as it would with a small tractor. Using a very big tractor (100hp+ ) has its disadvantages too (1) running over the swath with big tyres (2) not so handy in small fields (3) with a big tractor you can't really tell if you are 'overdoing' the baler,
as with anything else, it is nice to have the tractor and implement nicely matched.
Regards,
Roy

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Travis

06-28-2003 03:56:22




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 Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Roy in UK, 06-28-2003 02:06:42  
I learned to run a square baler at 6yrs old on an IH H. As everyone says live PTO is a must--saves alot of aggravation, and as Jim.UT says you have to have more talent to run one without live PTO, but the only way to get that talent is to actually have the baler plug up a few times before you start to learn how to quickly kick the tractor out of gear and let the baler keep going. One good way to learn how to do that is to have your Dad on the hayrack behind you and actually plug up the baler once--You'll also learn to crawl into the baler and dig the green slug of hay out.
Just buy yourself a big enough tractor to run it, preferably with a live PTO. If the heaviest thing you do with it is bale, don't get close to 100hp, it'll work but it is overkill. I think you would be satisfied with anything from a 300 on up to a 656.

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Roy in UK

06-28-2003 06:02:07




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 Re: Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Travis, 06-28-2003 03:56:22  
Many years ago, my family bought an IH B46 which at first they put behind a IH B450. Like all earlier International tractors, it did not have a live PTO. Apparently they then put it on a MF 65 with a dual clutch which of course was far handier. (Its much easier to creep up to the lumps and 'tease' them in bit by bit isn't it? )The story goes that my late father got a job baling a field of hay for another farmer. When he drove into the field the first thing he noticed was that the windrows were very lumpy and also strangely enough, the farmer in question had hired ANOTHER guy to help bale the field, by coincidence he too had an IH B46, but this time pulled by a Fordson Major. The Fordson did not have live PTO unlike dads MF65, and I remember dad telling me how he ran rings around the other fella. The guy with the Fordson came over to dad and said "Seeing how you can get on , I think I might as well go home!"

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Ken from Illinois formerl

06-28-2003 08:51:50




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp requi in reply to Roy in UK, 06-28-2003 06:02:07  
Roy, I just don't seem to get the accent right when I read your posts! But I will keep on trying! (People say I have a Minnesota accent? you know the one from the movie Fargo??)



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Roy in UK

06-28-2003 11:58:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp r in reply to Ken from Illinois formerl, 06-28-2003 08:51:50  
Well don't ask me to attempt an American accent will you!
As long as you "catch my drift" that will do
You have a nice day now.....
Off to catch a double decker bus now (after I have had my cream tea and buttered scones )
Roy



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Dean Myran

06-27-2003 21:06:54




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
We baled a lot of hay with a 350 Farmal when I was a kid on the farm. It had about 35 to 40 hp with live power and did an excellent job. A bigger key is to have your baler in good shape with a sharp knife and good knotters. I too recommend staying with New Holland or John Deere.



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Jim.UT

06-27-2003 20:47:01




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
A lot depends on how much ground you're going to bale and therefore, how big a baler you're going to run. There's a lot of us beginning balers that ask our stupid questions over on the Implement Alley forum (go to top of page where the pull down menu says "Another discussion forum"). Some more experienced people are kind to guide us through our missteps.

I use a Ford 850 (about 40 hp) with an old Massey Ferguson 124 baler. As mentioned below, live pto is a big plus. My tractor don't have it. It is possible to bale without live pto, it just takes more talent! ;^)

Seriously, if you know you're going to bale and you don't have a tractor yet, insist on live pto. A Ford 860 is the same tractor as mine only with a live pto. I just looked at a MF 65 with live pto also. It's for sale but the seller wants $4000 which I don't need to spend right now.

As for balers, if you're trying to get by with older less expensive equipment, there's lots of choices. Having gone the MF route, I'd say try a John Deere or New Holland. They make good balers and they're still making good balers....ie, parts are still available. It's best to make friends with a neighbor who knows his stuff. Then after doing him a quantity of favors, have him return the favor by going with you when you go to look at old used balers. He'll know what to look for in the way of critical wear areas, expensive fixes, etc. Of course you'll also have to listen to his personal biases which may or may not be grounded in fact....but you'll be closer to making a good decision than relying on your own judgment (assuming you have no experience). I speak from sad experience as evidenced by my non-live pto tractor and my MF baler!

Other considerations will be how are you going to cut the hay and put it into windrows? Sickle mower and a side delivery rake? That's what I do. Other options would be a swather, mo-co, bushhog with the side cut out, I've heard of lots of ways to do it. Again, listen to others, ask questions and make your own decision. It can be done. And fun can be had doing it!

Good luck.

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Trevor

06-29-2003 09:20:10




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 Re: Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Jim.UT, 06-27-2003 20:47:01  
Don't paint all MF balers with the same brush. Some were better than others. MF didn't always make there own baler and some were lemons and other were great.

The same goes for other tractor companies. I think the only one that was always good was NH.

We had a couple of MF balers and the last one was a great baler and I would put it against a JD any day.



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Sid

06-27-2003 20:36:24




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
I bale small squares with a WD AllisChalmers tractor. Thirty to thirty five HP is about as small as I would want to go, but definately want live power. I pull my round baler with a 170 deisel,Allischalmers it is about fifty to fiftyfive HP. I would not want a smaller tractor with mine but one baler manufacter advertises a model that you can bale with a fortyfive HP tractor. Around here we call a tractor with a narrow front end a row crop and you want a wide front end with a round baler.

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geok

06-27-2003 19:57:30




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 Re: Baler Question - how many hp required in reply to Mike S, 06-27-2003 19:09:56  
Depends on the baler. Square baler, most any tractor 50hp and up with live PTO. Round baler work better behind a row crop (tall) tractor 60hp and up.



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