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Holy Crap

Monsanto really wants its all!!!

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ShepFL

06-20-2003 15:46:26




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Just got done reading an article in June 18th SE Farm Press about a NC farmer that planted "saved" Roundup Ready seed. MONSANTO came out and investigated and after all the litigation the case was settled out of court. He now owes Monsanto $1.5M and has to become spokesman advising others of "intellectual rights" of Monsanto.

This article just floored me, I thought saved seed was yours to do as you wanted. Heck you payed premium for it. I have done much the same as him but with certified seed, this is how I am able to reduce some of my small operating costs.

How is it Monsanto can bust you for a crop that is harvested annually? Last I knew you could not rent or lease a plant. One more blow to those of us that try to produce and more significantly to those of you that do this for a living.

Wiser and more cautious in FLA!

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Okla/Kans Bill

06-23-2003 19:48:12




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  

I read in the last issue of Small Farm Journal that Montsanto was going broke and we could expect to see where it had been broken up in the near future. I didnt ever here that you could save hybred corn and replant it, only open pollinated conr seed, and I thought the only roundup ready corn seed was hybred seed



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Tom from Ontario

06-22-2003 18:39:54




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
The only people that want GMO technology are those selling the technology as well as those who figure they will make more money with the technology. The rest of the world does not want GMO's.If Monsanto can hammer GMO wheat down the throats of North American governments, we can all kiss our export markets goodbye. Roundup Ready technology has made a huge amount of money for Monsanto, yet why is the company been for sale for so long with no takers? Because so much Roundup has been used that Mother Nature has done her thing and weed resistances are starting to pop up. Not only that, the claims that Roundup is safe are bullroar. The liability issues are going to be huge. Most of Monsanto's products were developed for military use then adapted to agriculture. Lots of companies have done that. A couple of examples of it are anhydrous ammonia and Agent Orange from different sources. Look around fellows. Companies like Mansanto want all your business, whether you like it or not. You buy at their price, you sell at their price.

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what does RR mean

06-22-2003 10:27:25




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
i know it stands for roundup ready, but what does that actualy mean?



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ShepFL

06-23-2003 07:30:44




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to what does RR mean, 06-22-2003 10:27:25  
Snagged from a google.com search -

The Monsanto product, Roundup is a pesticide, manufactured by Monsanto. Roundup Ready soybeans, also known as glyphosate-tolerant soybean line 40-3-2, is safe for human and animal consumption. The methods critiqued are those that appear in the 'Full Assessment Report and Regulatory Impact Assessment'(by Monsanto) to ANZFA (The Australian and New Zealand Food Authority).

The pesticide 'Roundup' works by inhibiting an enzyme that is necessary for the plant to synthesise certain aromatic amino acids, killing the plant. The targeted enzyme is called 5-enolpyruvyl shikimate-3-phosphate synthetase, or EPSPS. The genetic modification in Roundup Ready soybeans involves incorporating a bacterial version of this enzyme, (from Agrobacterium species, strain CP4) into the soybean plant, giving the soybean protection from Roundup. In this way, the soybeans and any weeds can be sprayed with Roundup, killing the weeds and leaving the soybeans.

The same is basically true for other Roundup Ready seeds or so I understand.

HTH

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wrenchman

06-21-2003 21:54:52




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
hey Shep,monsanto was working on a one use seed a few years back(plant it once & the resulting crop is infertile = no brown bagging possible)...you had to buy new seed every time you planted...seems they were having problems with it as pollen drift could render neighboring non-monsanto crops infertile too...of course from their point of view that might be a good thing...i see they have figgured out a way around the fertility problem with their"seed leases"till they get it perfected...was some good writeups on worldnetdaily about this...iirc they were headed under"terminator seed"...

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paul

06-21-2003 22:19:50




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to wrenchman, 06-21-2003 21:54:52  
The bigger problem was cost - it added a year in releasing seed, and was kinda difficult to integrate into keeping seed lines current. They would end up losing 2 or so years of development to the competition.

--->Paul



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Nolan

06-21-2003 17:49:21




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
That's nothing.
There's been some articles in the DelMarVa Farmer about Monsanto going after farmers that got pollen drift into their fields. As in you've got SS corn in your fields, but your neighbor has some Monsanto varieties in his. Wind drifts some pollen off his field into yours, and you promptly get sued by Monsanto. I kid you not. I won't have a damn thing to do with the company these days.

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Alvin NE WI

06-21-2003 19:11:43




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to Nolan, 06-21-2003 17:49:21  
I have heard and talked to someone with that experence also. I have not used anything connected with monsanto for many years, even before they got theses RR beans. They are sleeping in the same bed as cargil, kraft to name a couple.But there is always some one that support and believe the big can do no wrong. It is the way to go, bigger is better. Yah right!!
Alvin



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Steve - IN

06-21-2003 15:03:34




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
Shep,
The Supreme Court here has upheld the idea of a patent being issued on a new and novel genetic combination. If colleges hold rights in the patent, they get paid a royalty along with Monsanto.

Genetic research may someday cure cancer and a host of other illnesses. So it does make some sense to give incentive to research by extending patent coverage protection. Monsanto has chosen to lease their product as it gives them more ability to protect the fruits of their labor against infringers from China, Taiwan, etc. Just like Microsoft, it makes legal sense. The lease gives them quick and easy teeth to keep you from sending that seed to China to be copied -- much faster than a patent lawsuit which could drag on for years after the ship has sunk and the store had been cleaned out.

We're still a free market, and no one is forced to use Windows or Monsanto seed. No one would lease the product if it didn't have some benefits over other products than can be purchased outright.

Interesting, some of the possibilities -- A plant gene engineered to cross pollinate with heirloom plants and render them infertile would soon turn into a monopoly. Surely an unintended consequence of the Supreme Court decision. Also, think of parents getting a patent on the unique gene combination produced in the womb, i.e. you. Would they be able to claim a royalty on the fruits of your labor? If the laws give a mother the right to kill that gene combination in the womb, why can't she also patent it? The phrase "new lease on life" is going to take on whole new meanings in the coming decades -- some of them aren't very pretty.

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REDMAN

06-22-2003 09:33:36




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to Steve - IN, 06-21-2003 15:03:34  
YOU SHOULD CHECK AND SEE WHAT COUNTRIES BENEFIT FROM THOSE GENETICS.ALSO WHILE YOUR ON THE SUBJECT CHECK AND SEE JUST HOW MANY OF THEM HAVE A TECH FEE ON THE SEED.I THINK YOU MIGHT BE A LITTLE SHOCKED TO FIND THAT OUR COMPETION DON'T HAVE TO PAY A CENT ON TECH FEES.REDMAN,MN



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Gary

06-21-2003 08:39:01




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
The process is quite simple, don't save any of this year's crop for next year's seed. I've been planting RR soybeans for years and never had a problem. Don't know of anyone else who's had problems either.



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tim[in]

06-23-2003 02:30:22




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to Gary, 06-21-2003 08:39:01  
you will eventually!! even people who didnt plant it and didnt want it in their crops are being pursued by monsanto! but they wont let those whose own property and intellectial rights have been violated sue monsanto for the loss of their own rights and income!.



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paul

06-21-2003 06:41:14




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
Monsanto does NOT sell Round-Up Ready seed. They lease it. You get to rent the seed for one year. It is a very long, very complex legal document, which gives Monsanto all the rights, & takes away any rights or protections farmers had in normal business dealings. You are liable for _anything_ that goes wrong, from marketing issues to pollen drift & so on, Monsanto 'gives' you all that - but retains ownership of the seed and dictates what you can do with it & it's offspring. They can inspect your property for at least 3 years (no warrent needed) and all the fines & penalties are already agreed to by you. Should you be accused, you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. It's a really sweet contract....

Am I mad at Monsanto? No.

75% of the beans out there are RR. Farmers can't fall over themselves fast enough to sign their rights away. Well, duh.

If you want to understand the concept, remember the licencing agreement you signed by clicking on a box for using Microsoft products? _EXACT_ same deal.

You do remember that document, don't you? With Windows XP, it doesn't even work, unless MS gives you a pass code. And they don't _have_ to give you the code. You only bought a $150-300 shiny plastic disc. You agreed to get nothing else.

Same deal with the Monsanto agreement.

The govt went pretty far to get consumer protection for regular sales; so business came up with the lease idea, to get around all those protections. I suppose in 50 years we'll have a few consumer protection laws that deal with leases.

Wait until livestock become GMO. We ain't seen nothing yet.....

--->Paul

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rem

06-21-2003 04:57:55




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
You want to see some more of the Monsanto tricks just go to google and type in Percy Schmeiser.
Also, I'd encourage you to send him a few pennies for support of his case.
What has bigness wrought?????



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JMS/MN

06-20-2003 22:09:45




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
When you buy Roundup Ready soybeans you sign an agreement that you agree not to 'brownbag' the resulting crop for seed for a future year.There is nothing unclear about that. If you use those beans for seed, you are in violation of the agreement you signed. If you are not willing to comply with that, then don't buy the seed. That contract has just as much validity as the one you sign when you agree to sell on the futures market at a given price. If the buyer reneged on the contract he signed with you because the price changed, you would raise holy he double toothpicks. It is the same with RR beans. Your signature is your bond. If you can't live with that responsibility, then don't buy the product. (Not sorry if my response was too 'wordy' for some.)

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REDMAN

06-22-2003 09:54:39




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to JMS/MN, 06-20-2003 22:09:45  
SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE EITHER A SEED SALESMAN ON A CHEMICAL REP. ALL US FARMERS LIKE TO GET LOWER PRICES FOR OUR CROPS AND AT THE SAME TIME PAY MORE FOR SEED AND ADD A TECH FEE ON TOP OF IT.
IF YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE THAT IS FINE.YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A SMARTASS ABOUT IT NEXT TIME SIGN YOUR NAME.CHAD PETERSON,HAVE A NICE DAY



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JMS/MN

06-22-2003 17:15:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its in reply to REDMAN, 06-22-2003 09:54:39  
I think you're wrong on all three counts- I'm not trying to be a smart aleck, nor do I sell seed or rep chems. Been a full-time farmer for over thirty years, started with nothing more than a good education, no inheritance or family handouts, but a lot of ambition. Bought a small run-down farm with a little net worth which was earned by working my way through college, along with the GI Bill. Finished a BS degree (granted, many would agree with that) in less than four years with no debt, but worked nights in machine shops, ammo plant, and trucking company. After Army service as a paratrooper and Green Beret, I figured frat parties were pretty sophomoric, so had no time for them. Learned to read any contract before signing it, whether for a sale or a purchase. Ran into many who have signed contracts and didn't see the need to comply with them when it cost the signer money, but have no sympathy with them. They expect the other side to live up to the contract, so why shouldn't we as well?

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REDMAN

06-23-2003 16:24:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants in reply to JMS/MN, 06-22-2003 17:15:05  
I DIDN'T MEAN TO PUT A BEE IN YOUR BONNET.JUST THOUGHT YOU COULD HAVE WORDED YOUR STATEMENT A LITTLE BIT BETTER.I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A SORE SPOT ON SUBJECTS LIKE THIS AS A COUPLE YEARS AGO THEIR WAS A SMALL PROBLEM CALLED STAR-LINK CORN,WE DID NOT PLANT ANY,BUT THE GUYS AROUND US DID.SO WE GOT TO ENJOY IT WITH THEM.IF A FARMER MADE A MISTAKE LIKE THAT YOU WOULD BE OUT OF BUSSINESS AND THE COMMUNITY WOULD BE EATING HOTDOGS AT YOUR SALE.SINCE IT WAS NOT A FARMER THE GOVERNMENT SET IT UP SO YOU GET A EXTRA QUARTER OVER THE COUNTY PRICE ANY SORRY ABOUT YOUR LUCK.THEY GET A SLIP ON THE WRIST YOU GET TO EXPLAIN TO THE ELE. WHY YOU CAN'T BRING THE CORN YOU CONTRACTED.

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ShepFL

06-21-2003 00:40:10




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to JMS/MN, 06-20-2003 22:09:45  
JMS -
Don't get me wrong. I agree on the contract aspect and if he is in violation by his own actions then he is responsible AND should be held to that accountability. Furthermore I also agree on your point about futures. I just didn't realize the scope nor the complexity involved with transgenic seed purchases and subsequent harvest. I am small time, I only have about 50 acres in crops/pasture and the balance in planted pines.

Currently I buy my seed from local supplier and they are only certified seed. They are small enough to also offer heirloom seeds. While they also offer the RR materials I do not have the equipment to take advantage of the benefits i.e. sprayer et. all. I have toyed with the idea of using RR seed but that article scared me. I do not want to risk my operation and all other materials due to patent infringment etc.

"Your signature is your bond" and so should be your word.

Best Regards,
ShepFL

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rod

06-21-2003 04:39:02




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 Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its in reply to ShepFL, 06-21-2003 00:40:10  
hey shep what good would your word be you would not even pay postage on a free manual I sent you so you have no room to talk about your word or bond meaning anything.
regards
rod



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evielboweviel

06-22-2003 08:35:46




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants in reply to rod, 06-21-2003 04:39:02  
Shep sent me a free copy of a manual on Oliver three bottom pull type plows and refused to take anything for it. We need more people like him not less. You should have tried settling this off the board first



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Ludwig

06-21-2003 09:38:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants in reply to rod, 06-21-2003 04:39:02  
Rod, thats a pretty lousy way to deal with the situation. If you wanted to get paid you should have emailed him first. Why humiliate somebody on the board if you don't have to?



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paul

06-21-2003 11:30:18




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wa in reply to Ludwig, 06-21-2003 09:38:00  
We kinda see the high road & the low road here, huh? ;)

Someone mailed me a shop manual for my moco from the boards.... I did offer that guy postage, he said no, didn't need any for the help I give here. Nice guy. Never got an address from him, or I's still send him something. But I do thank him for the manual - I'll keep him annon. :)

--->Paul



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ShepFL

06-21-2003 08:11:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants in reply to rod, 06-21-2003 04:39:02  
Hey Rod -
I offer my public apology to you on this matter. I do know that I owe you for the manual. Send me an email to the above address and I will right this wrong.

I did receive the manual, I took it out of the envelop and placed it in my binder. I then took your street address and removed it from the envelope so I had it to mail you some money for your generosity. I have since lost your street address and as such did not send anything. I have not made it a priority to contact you given current harvest efforts.

Just this morning I was going to post a topic "Hey Rod - Gas manual" in the implement section in an attempt to reach you.

Again, I am sorry for this err on my responsibility and upon reciept of your street address will right this wrong straight away.

Humbly,
Greg Sheppard aka ShepFL

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ShepFL

06-21-2003 09:52:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wa in reply to ShepFL, 06-21-2003 08:11:45  
Rod -
Forgot about the new email addy hiding function that Kim has provided. This is a follow up post with my email addy displayed. Hope to hear from you soon. Seeking your complete satisfaction.
Best Regards,
ShepFL



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Classy response!!!

06-21-2003 20:20:04




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto reall in reply to ShepFL , 06-21-2003 09:52:21  
Probably the best response to someone who is angry I have seen. GOOD ON YA!! Irv



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Jeff

06-20-2003 21:17:14




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
Now it's been a while since we have put a crop in ( almost 20 yrs I guess) So I am a little behind on this stuff. By "saved" seed do you mean some that come from the crop he planted with Monsanto seed or some of the original seed that he bought? I guess I am a little old fashioned though as I figure if he bought the original seed to produce a crop then what he does with that crop is his business.

Now if he signed something or agreed not to save any of the crop I have to go along with the Monsanto. But if not I have to go along with the farmer.

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Bill in Florida

06-20-2003 20:29:36




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
Intellectual property rights are sticky. We get mad when China steals our technology (remember "don't copy that floppy" in the computer industry). Monsanto did spend big bucks and many years doing the research. They do deserves to be able to sell it's product for more than two years before all the farmers "save" the seeds. I do feel however that the goverment should get the same percent of the profit that they gave in research dollors. Just like any investment company would get. It would help reduce our taxes. Bottom line, if you want to save the seeds, buy the older "more natural" products.

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tim[in]

06-23-2003 02:42:43




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 Re: Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all! in reply to Bill in Florida, 06-20-2003 20:29:36  
even if you use the older more natural products like open pollinated corn if the rr pollen drifts onto and contaminates your crop, you have to pay monsanto. even if it is "certified" organic and the contamination costs you income. you cannot sue them! they sue you!!one lady in iowa who had her own line of open pollinated lost half her income because of contamination. she has decided not to fight govt backed monsanto!

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Brian

06-20-2003 20:05:47




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
NWTF local chapter supplied me with RR beans for food plots. I didn't ask where it came from but if supplied by Monsanto I bet they are writing it off.



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kyhayman

06-20-2003 19:34:30




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
Monsanto stock has gone up $7 this spring (since Feb), go figure.



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Alvin NE WI

06-20-2003 17:40:39




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
Guess monsanto clains it is their patent...., even thou it was devoloped by our tax supported land grant collages.There have also been numerous times that a farmer planted non round up ready beans and when he sold them the germ was mixed with his clean crop and was denied the sale be cause of contaminted feed, which came because of wind pollennation.. Guess you can not beat the biggies, and it gets worse each year..

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Old Peddler

06-20-2003 17:39:45




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
There are still some old varieties of corn around that are self pollinating. You can save seed from it and replant next year.



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Alberta Mike

06-20-2003 15:57:15




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 Re: Holy Crap - Monsanto really wants its all!!! in reply to ShepFL, 06-20-2003 15:46:26  
Same thing is happening up in these parts with a farmer from Saskatchewan, although he is claiming that he didn't "save" seed, but his crop got contaminated by seed flying around the neighbourhood and falling off of other guy's grain trucks, etc. Of course we know that isn't really what happened, fact is he probably saved it too or got it from someone else who did. Isn't it part of the deal though when you plant that Monsanto stuff that you agree not to "save" it and reseed it? Obviously the courts are siding with the big company's so it must be the way it was supposed to happen. The guy up here is going all the way to the Supreme Court and of course he'll probably lose.

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