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My hay seems a little too warm

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ole

06-18-2003 06:52:57




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I cut and baled two fields over the weekend. Cut on Saturday and let lay in the 70+ sunny day Sunday and half of Monday. I checked the windrow from my MoCo and decided to roll it over to dry the last underside and by mid afternoon was square baling it up. I finished all the baling of that first field on Monday but did not pick up the bales until Tuesday. I don’t have a throw wagon and do the entire job alone so I let them drop on the field and go back later to get them. So the first field laid on the ground overnight without getting rained on or wet. Tuesday I rolled all the bales over to allow the side on the gound to dry while I raked and baled my second field. I took most of the day to get them done and decided since the first lot already laid out to get my second field off before dark. I finished 190 bales there as it was getting dark and went after the first field. These bales are noticeably heavier, by at least two fold. The field does have a different composition with some 15% remaining alfalfa in it from a very old stand, and much heavier grasses. My MoCo likes to cut that field better being heavier. So as I am loading these bales in my truck I can’t help but think they are wet because they are so heavy. They felt fine. Just compact. My baler put them up tight. I got the first load back to the barn and the second bale I carried in was noticeably warm. I reached inside and it felt dry but very warm. Here are my questions. Can the heat from the sun drying the hay (around 80 and clear sky all day) when baled be retained inside that bale? I have never felt them to be that warm but I also usually bale later in the day. Second question is for pointers as to know when the hay is down and drying, how do you decide it is dry enough to bale? Thanks for your help.

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red-n-green

06-20-2003 19:51:04




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 Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:52:57  
I didn't notice anybody responding to your question about when do you know when hay is dry enough to bale. I personally use a delmhorst moisture tester and bale at between 10 and 15% moisture. If you don't have a tester, the best way I know of is to grab a good handfull and with both hands, twist the hay in opposite directions. If it breaks in the middle between your hands it is dry enough to bale. If it just twists up and feels a little damp, then you should wait a while. Good dry hay will most of the time break or at least crackle when dry enough. I also stack all of my square hay on edge in the barn. I think it helps it breathe better. It is also harder to get the moisture just right when mixing grasses with legumes such as alfalfa. One always wants to dry faster than the other. Good luck,

Jay

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Larry

06-19-2003 05:00:26




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 Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:52:57  
Don't feel like the lone ranger. I've done the same thing. Just keep repeating to yourself when you're haying---I WILL NOT BALE ANY HAY TOO WET--
Its better to have it laying in the field rained on, than in a bale getting moldy and hot.



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T_Bone

06-19-2003 00:16:37




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 Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:52:57  
Hi ole,

I can't tell you much about hay as I've forgotten most that I learned about hay as a kid but I can tell you about composting.

To compost you need;
Oxygen
Water
Nitrogen (greens)
Carbon (browns)

You have three out of the four ingredients and only lacking the browns, straw, wood chips, dry leafs, etc. I thought this part would be of interest to you.

A Compost pile will get about 160*f or so for hot composting and about 130*f and under for cold composting in the center of the pile.

On hot composting I can turn out a yard size pile every 30days into excellant compost. Cold composting takes about 6mths to finish product.

When a pile gets to stinking and very hot, 180*f plus, it's because it has too much moister and not enough browns. This pile will rott and is the odor that you smell as working compost smells like fresh earth. Ever smelled a pile of wet grass clippings? Same thing it's rotting not composting!

The other thing that happens with rotting vegetation is that it can make methane gas under the correct conditions just like your septic tank does. Thats when it becomes a fire hazzard.

This rotting will not turn into compost without adding browns and will go to a black sludge type of bacteria and when it drys out will be dry mold with alot of unhealthy bacteria. This pile would have to be used as a filler on a new pile.

Hope that info helped you in some way.

T_Bone

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Hal/WA

06-18-2003 22:04:49




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 Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:52:57  
I have read the other posts and thought I would add an idea. We often had problems with rain on our baled hay before we were able to get them picked up out of the field. So what we would do is stand them up on end and lean them up against eachother, making "tepees" of 2 to 4 bales. Then if it rained, maybe some of the water would run off them and there would be maximum area exposed to the air for evaporation and minimum are exposed to ground moisture. I sure hated 140 pound wire tied bales that I ran into occasionally. They almost always were too wet.

It probably helped some, but we still used salt sometimes between bale layers in the barn. Wet hay can burn by spontaneous combustion. And such a fire is very difficult to get all out--usually involves removing every bale from a stack. Good luck.

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wdTom

06-18-2003 17:56:37




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 Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:52:57  
Well I haven't done a lot haying for years. As a kid though I did a lot. For the small farm where two of us kids worked along with the farmer we put up 12 to 15000 bales a year. We were at it from the first of June till the end of Oct. Anyway, it may be possible to start a fire with wet hay, I wouldn't say it can't happen, however we always had some bales that because they happened to come from hay that was in the shade, had a big (mower) bar foul clump, or was in a wet or swampy patch of a field, had wet spots or were sometimes totally green and wet still. And they were twice as heavy as the dry bales. These were about 50 lbs. twine tie square bales. Those wet bales always went into the barn along with the dry ones and when they came out in the winter they were all dry mold, dusty and nasty, but dry. I don't know about if all the bales were a bit damp though, might be a different matter.

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Ron

06-18-2003 08:33:46




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 Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:52:57  
We used to do a LOT of baleing...JD wire tie, the old "side-winder"... It would make very tight bales, and we never stacked them higher than 5 high in the mow, and not too tight...they would usually go thru a "sweat", and even make the barn seem extra warm.. After the Sweat, we would put more on top... Check them to see if they have mold, but I would think it would take a little longer to start the Sweat, or cure.. Usually, alfalfa will make a heavier bale, and maybe you should have loostened the tensions a little.. I would be careful of putting up hay that is baled green...it can start barn fires..!!

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ole

06-18-2003 06:56:19




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 Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:52:57  
Another thing I was asking is if this hay were to be put up too wet and ferment in the bale it would take more time than one day to create that kind of heat wouldn't it? For the time being I think I'll put these bales on a flat rack out in the pasture and cover them with a tarp until I hear some of your thoughts. Thanks



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kyhayman

06-18-2003 19:04:43




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 Re: Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:56:19  
Not sure how warm is 'warm'. I use a thermometer to monitor heating. Some heating of first cutting here is normal. Generally up to 100 they wont mold (maybe even 110, but they will be too dusty for most horse hay buyers). I don't get excited until they get over 130, then I start checking daily. At 180 they can rise to ignition temperature in a few hours. Heating is worse in a barn or if stacked. Even round bales can start a barn fire. Two of my neighbors had that happen last year. I almost had it this year. Had some rolls up in the 150's, stacked 3 high in the barn, pulled them out.

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TomH

06-18-2003 18:17:54




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 Re: Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:56:19  
They'll start to heat after just a few hours.



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Mike (WA)

06-18-2003 08:07:54




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 Re: Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to ole, 06-18-2003 06:56:19  
That was my thought- leave them outside, preferably single layer and not touching, and they may dry out without molding. If you have cattle, the mold doesn't seem to bother them. The combination of heavy bales, "compact" and tight, and warming indicates baling too wet.



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paul

06-18-2003 10:09:34




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 Re: Re: Re: My hay seems a little too warm in reply to Mike (WA), 06-18-2003 08:07:54  
Since this is first cutting, you should have room in the barn:

lay them on edge (not the twine side) on the floor, a couple inches apart. Don't stack, just one layer. Leave them for 5 days or so. They should dry out, dissapate the heat, & be ok for cattle.

Some folks will put salt on the edge, aborbs the moisture & prevents mold, but seems a lot of work & rusts the nails out of your barn....

But if their is risk of them catching fire, getting them out of the barn is a fine idea. :) Stacking tight & covering with plastic will totally ruin them tho - forget the plastic. Tumble them on the ground, better than tight stack on the hayrack, you will ruin the floor if they sweat.

--->Paul

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