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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

POSITIVE and NEGATIVE VOLTAGE REGULATORS

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Tom43

06-18-2007 08:55:23




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Would someone please explain the differences between positive and negative ground voltage regulators?




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Bob

06-18-2007 21:30:44




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 Re: POSITIVE and NEGATIVE VOLTAGE REGULATORS in reply to Tom43, 06-18-2007 08:55:23  
The other guys are absolutely correct for mechanical regulators.

The contact material for the upper and lower cutout contacts is (was) made of material appropriate for it's location (polarity).

'Most all regulators you're gonna find today are from "The Land of Almost Right", and I doubt if they give a (Chinese) rat's patoot about the quality "old ways" of making regulators, though, and I'll bet they use "one size fits a;;" materials for the contact points, regardless of system polarity.

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Jerry Coulter

06-18-2007 16:29:08




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 Re: POSITIVE and NEGATIVE VOLTAGE REGULATORS in reply to Tom43, 06-18-2007 08:55:23  
I found this in Dear Old Dad's Delco Remy Operation and Maintenance Handbook dated 11-1-50: Negative grounded regulators have the flat contact point on the regulator armature. On positive grounded regulators the flat contact point is in the upper contact bracket. (The other point is rounded or crowned.) Using the wrong polarity regulator will cause the points to pit badly and give very short life. Regulators designed for positive grounded systems have copper plated current and voltage regulator armatures while regulators for negative grounded systems have cadmium plated armatures.

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John T (lil help please)

06-18-2007 09:12:19




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 Re: POSITIVE and NEGATIVE VOLTAGE REGULATORS in reply to Tom43, 06-18-2007 08:55:23  
There are many different manufacturers and I have seen some units labeled Pos Ground others Neg Ground and some that are not labeled at all. My usual response it simply to try them and see if they work cuz I believe MOST of them will notwithstanding what Frank talks about where they may last longer if used in the correct polarity. If I were purchasing a replacement Id simply try n buy one labeled for my ground (Pos or Neg) first choice and one not labeled either way as my second choice.

If I get time I might research this question cuz we have all seen it before. Like Frank I kind of see them working at either polarity cuz current through a coil still produces a magnetic field and regardless of their wired polarity WE DO NOT change the individual polarities or windings of any internal relay/coils. Its the same reasoning that a tractor starter motor still turns the same direction regardless of polarity cuz we dont reverse the fields or armature windings with respect to each other as is done on a reversible DC motor.

Anyone agree or disagree or wanna arm wrestle this question lol Wish my old IHC buddy Bob M were here or maybe the other Bob or Gerald has some thoughts to add to this or Franks post?????

John T

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Gerald J.

06-18-2007 10:13:57




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 Re: POSITIVE and NEGATIVE VOLTAGE REGULATORS in reply to John T (lil help please), 06-18-2007 09:12:19  
I think the prime difference between positive and negative relay type voltage regulators is in the contact materials. Those that are polarity sensitive have different materials on mating vibrating contacts that give a longer life for a lower manufacturing cost than if the contacts were made to be universal. That's like spark plugs in my F-150 V-8 engine. The factory originals (only rated for 75,000 to 100,000 miles) are different for the left and right banks. The difference is that each has platinum on only one side of the gap, arranged to match the polarity of the coil. Saves them something on the plug costs, but replacements are more costly because they have platinum on both sides and can work with either coil polarity. The coils fire two plugs at a time and do feed them different polarities.

Now when it comes to solid state regulators, they won't stand any reversed polarity. And many of the replacement regulators in the auto stores are no longer relay or magnetic but are all solid state but packaged to LOOK LIKE the original regulators. They are often made for alternators and I don't have any experience with them for generators. But I'd think they might demand generator flashing before connecting the new regulator to the circuit. I know when one I designed for a steam locomotive got reversed polarity it let all the smoke out and turned all the power parts to charcoal. I also know that had I anticipated they would apply AC to the regulator, I could have designed to to work at AC, because I designed one for an alternator once.

I also know that the parts books on the counter at the local car parts place won't say whether a particular regulator is solid state or magnetic/relay.

The last new magnetic/relay regulator that came into my possession required tweaking to charge properly. Its worked fine for the last 19 years, giving long battery life and accepting relatively heavy electrical loads running my electric field sprayer pump.

Gerald J.

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RustyFarmall

06-18-2007 09:46:56




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 Re: POSITIVE and NEGATIVE VOLTAGE REGULATORS in reply to John T (lil help please), 06-18-2007 09:12:19  
I sure won't argue with you. But then electricity is not one of my strong points. I can usually succeed in making it work in my favor, but trying to explain how I did it is another matter entirely. I do know for sure that if a cut-out regulator is connected improperly, the smoke will come out, and then the cut-out is absolutely no good. I also found out the other day that a person should not work on A.C. electricity in the presence of poison ivy. It just ain't a good idea.

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