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Detergent and Non-detergent Oils

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Iduuno?

02-18-2002 21:45:31




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A man told me today that a tractor engine would last longer with detergent oil. I had always heard that the antique tractors needed non-detergent oil, that the detergent would not be good for them. Does anyone have any thoughts on this subject? Could one of them damage the engine?




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Bob Kerr

02-22-2002 10:34:42




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 Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Iduuno?, 02-18-2002 21:45:31  
Verns post hit the nail on the head. If your tractor has an oil filter use detergent, If no filter, use non detergent. If you notice most tractors built before the 30s it is easy to remove the oil pan and,OR it has hand holes in the block with removeable covers so it is easy to clean out the pan.IHC first used filters in 1929 and they were a cloth and felt sock put over a spring, then they went to a washable metal filter, then paper types.Most companys back then recommeded cleaning out the pans once or twice a year. Filters extented the oil change intervals by trapping the crud that would get into the engine.Non detergent oil lets that crud settle out during the overnight or when it wasn't being used.Once settled the crud stayed put in the pan bottom.Most of those real old engines only ran 6-10 lbs pressure so there wasn't a lot of volumn flowing to stir things off the pan bottom, plus the pick up is a few inches off the pan bottom. Before filters most engines had as little as 500 mile oil change intervals on cars, and 10-15 hours on tractors.Detergent oil and filter combinations allowed oil change intervals to be increased and lowered operation cost and down time, (BUT, using detergent oil in an engine without a filter will not increase the change interval!)That is why everone started using detergent back in the 50s to lower oil costs and keep the machine running longer. You can use what you feel you need to use, and if you have a "newer" antique like in the 40s-50s 60s go with detergent.They all used filters at that point anyway. If the detergent cleans up behind the rings and it starts smoking, it most likly needs rings anyway. As far as what weight oil to use, go with what the manual calls for for the climate you are using it in whether it is detergent oil or not.

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Mike

02-19-2002 05:01:41




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 Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Iduuno?, 02-18-2002 21:45:31  
The reason someone told you antique tractors need non-detergent oil is because usually you don't know what type of oil the last owner used. If it was detergent oil there's no problem, but if he used non-detergent oil and you put detergent oil in the engine, the detergent removes all the built up carbon and varnish on the cylinder walls and effectively unseats the piston rings. That's why, unless you KNOW FOR SURE that detergent oil was used in the tractor it's better to be safe and use non-detergent oil than to have to rebuild the engine.

Of course, after you rebuild an engine feel free to use detergent oil. There isn't any problem with using non-detergent oil as long as you make your oil changes in a timely fashion. I hope that explains the mystery of the non-detergent vrs detergent oils.

Mike

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Denny Frisk

02-19-2002 11:57:51




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 Re: Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Mike, 02-19-2002 05:01:41  
Man..having been raised on a farm in the late 50's & 60's Detergent oil was used in ALL tractors back then! Biggest problem with most of these old antique tractors that sat along the fence for the last 20-30 yrs is the fact the farm out-grew them and they took up shed space... And/Or they were wore out and needed repair which would have cost more than the tractor was worth. I use detergent oil in EVERYTHING! This Non-Detergent thing has got to DIE!

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Mike

02-19-2002 13:19:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Denny Frisk, 02-19-2002 11:57:51  
So what are you going to dump in that new antique tractor you just shelled out $3000 for and the guy you got it from never changed the oil and he can't remember the guy's name he bought it from.

I know, put detergent oil in so you have a 50-50 chance of rebuilding it right away, yeah, right.

Mike



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G Taylor ...on the verge

02-19-2002 19:06:15




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Mike, 02-19-2002 13:19:45  
The old engine was likely so wornout when parked it was on the verge of total failure at any moment. No matter what's put in crankcase now. Add to the engine's problems, the stress of corrosion then being "unstuck". Detergent oil or synthetic oil "making" an engine fail is at best a "coffee shop" topic for debate. If an engine is full of dirt & gummy deposits, it's better out of there. Rings are supposed to be free to turn & expand in thier grooves rather then soot/gum taking up the clearances.

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Big IF

02-19-2002 03:19:11




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 Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Iduuno?, 02-18-2002 21:45:31  
"IF" the engine has lots of wear from many years of use and always had NON detergent, I'd keep using the same non detergent oil in it. "Don't fix" it by switching now. It may really pump oil then by making rings looser. If its gotten a newer overhaul, go with newer detergent oil. f.



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Vern

02-18-2002 22:09:44




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 Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Iduuno?, 02-18-2002 21:45:31  
As I understand it, if your tractor has an oil filter you can use detergent oil. If not, use non-detergent. Some of the older tractors were built before detergent oils were common and may not have filters so the crud settled in the pan. The detergents keep the crud in suspension for the filter to catch.



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Ray,IN

02-20-2002 18:28:07




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 Re: Re: Detergent and Non-detergent Oils in reply to Vern, 02-18-2002 22:09:44  
If I may add to Verns post. The seals in these old engines were not made to withstand the additives in modern detergent oil. The original seals will slowly deteriorate from constant exposure to the additives, now if I ever have to rebuild the engine I will then use modern oil. My 1953 TO30 has always has non-detergent 20w or 30w oil in it as stated in the owners manual. The engine has never had an oil leak, used oil, or smoked since bought new by my Dad in 1953 at Harry Stevenson Ferguson in Elletsville, IN. With a record like that why consider changing? I was 11 then and now my grandson is beginning to learn to drive it. The lubrication maintence schedule was always followed.

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