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OT: Is email a legally binding contract?

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Steven@nd

12-12-2001 10:56:05




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For example, I get an email from John Doe saying that he will pay me $1000 for an M parts tractor with new tires on it. What if he doesn't pay? Is this considered legally binding or not? Or reverse it and I say "I'll buy that H from you for $500 when I get the money" then I get the money but don't buy it and instead buy someone else's tractor.

I know email can be hacked into, but will it hold up in court? Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this.

Steven

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Steven@nd

12-13-2001 07:10:11




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
Thanks for all the replies! I have yet to have any trouble with anyone, or at least I haven't lost any money or goods. I was just wondering how the law was on email.

I agree that the old tractor guys are a really good bunch to deal with and are usually very honest about what they are selling.

Thanks
Steven



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John (I'm a lawyer)

12-13-2001 06:36:39




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
Guys:

I am a lawyer - I also have about 9 antique tractors and a whole of equipment. Please don't hold it against me. I have handled alot of contract litigation and have drafted a lot of contracts as well. Contrary to some misconceptions, you can have a validly binding oral contract. The terms of the contract cannot be too vague, or the contract cannot be enforced. The emails you exchange on the Internet provide valuable evidence of the terms of your oral contract. Both emails and electronic pictures, etc. can be easily admitted into evidence in my state (Texas) and in federal court. Money does not have to exchange hands, you just need mutual promises, e.g. I promise to give you $500, you promise to give me your tractor.

Here is the practical effect - you will never end up in court over a $500 deal or even a $2500 deal. The lawyer fees would exceed the value of the money you're trying to recover. So, when you're making deals with guys in the tractor hobby, just forget about the legalities. If you're making a big deal, use common sense to protect yourself. If all else fails, there are several Internet escrow companies out there that will act as the middleman for exchanging the goods and money.

With all that being said, I have always been impressed by how genuinely honest and sincere tractor hobby people are.

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paul

12-13-2001 10:04:22




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 Re: Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to John (I'm a lawyer), 12-13-2001 06:36:39  
Now, you're pulling our leg - that was to commonsense & plain to come from a lawyer! :)

Just kiddin' ya. :) Nice message tho.

--->Paul



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markb

12-13-2001 04:12:54




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
As I understand contract law (which is to say very little), how you communicate your agreement makes little difference. A verbal contract is legally binding, although difficult to enforce.

The key thing is that money (or other valuable consideration) must change hands. For instance:

If I tell you "I'll pay you $1000 for your car" and you say "OK", that's not a contract.

On the other hand, if I say "I'll pay you $1000 for your car, and here's 10 bucks down" and you take the 10 bucks, then we have a contract. If you decide not to sell me the car, I can sue you. If I don't buy the car, you can sue me.

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bob

12-12-2001 22:59:39




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
NO. For a contract to be legal, money must change hands. No exchange of money or other goods or services, no contract.



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Jim WI

12-13-2001 11:11:35




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 Re: Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to bob, 12-12-2001 22:59:39  
An agreement of "if you do x, I will do y" is still potentially a legally binding contract.

The money or goods or services performed are a part of the fulfillment of the contract, not the contract itself.



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george goodwin

12-12-2001 14:19:06




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
I've done over 3000 deals on the net and only had problems with about 3 people. I would just let it pass. Even if you get a "judgement" you will still have to collect the money, and that ain't easy. An idiot is an idiot, in or out of cyberspace!



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Greg S

12-12-2001 13:44:20




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
Another point regarding electronic documents and such, pictures taken with digital cameras are inadmissible in court. If you want a picture for legal purposes i.e. insurance claims or insurance inventory probably ought to break out the old Kodak Brownie(for those old enough to know what that is).



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Nolan

12-13-2001 04:00:45




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 Re: Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Greg S, 12-12-2001 13:44:20  
Bull. We use electronic documents and digital camera images all the time in court.



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paul

12-12-2001 14:39:24




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 Re: Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Greg S, 12-12-2001 13:44:20  
That is interesting. Seems I've heard that, but I wonder if things have or will soon change?

After all, how many 100's of 'Agreements' have I agreed to with the click of a mouse as I install software? These agreements state the software is worthless & the company producing it is not held accountable for anything, however I'm responsible for all sorts of possible future problems. (Has anyone ever read the rights we give away on those agreements? Just like GMO seeds, now even non-GMO seeds, it's just silly.)

If these electronic agreements requiring only a mouseclick should be somehow enforcable, then surely an unaltered digital photo should carry some weight?

Of course, that would be assuming laws are fair, just, and everyone wants to be honest, and the little guy is equal to the big corporation....

--->Paul

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mike

12-12-2001 13:02:02




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
People back out on hand shakes and stop payment on checks,good luck trying to find someone in cyber space.



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david

12-12-2001 11:02:58




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 Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to Steven@nd, 12-12-2001 10:56:05  
Interesting (and I'm not a lawyer). That said I would think there are a few considerations: 1. Does your state honor an electroinic signature. 2. Is the transaction accross state lines. Better chance in state than accross state lines. 3. Your first example would appear to be binding but difficult to enforce. Your second example probably not because there is not a time frame for the action to occur. I'd say the bottem line is case law in your state. It would certainly be more than a verbal contract (which while enforceable is unprovable unless there are witnesses)

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ESQ

12-12-2001 21:10:02




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 Re: Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to david, 12-12-2001 11:02:58  
Even a flock of us would find a hundred ways to disagree. The true and technically correct answer is that it depends. Verbal contracts can be enforceable. If I make an offer which has some value, and you accept in a way that conveys or promises some value, then you have a contract,..... HOWEVER, some states require certain contracts to be in writing, real estate sale contracts for example. Contracts for in excess of a certain amount must be in writing, (the amount differs from state to state.) Some contracts must be signed. If you make an offer to buy on paper and the other person accepts on paper, you probably have an enforceble deal. Problem, is an email offer and acceptance which is printed out, "in writing" Most states are just now trying to figure this out, and it probably varies from state to state, a great deal. There is a whole set of rules that governs contracts between private sellers, and another set of rules which apply to contracts between dealers and consumers. Example, if you say, "Send me $20, and I will send you this thingamajig. Once you recieve my $20,and assuming three years hasn't past, we have an enforceable contract.(Also assuming your of the mental capacity to contract) A deal for $2000 may have to be in writing in one state but not in another. Then we get in to which state's laws apply to the offer and acceptance. So if I offer from one state and you accept from another, which state's laws apply? Then there are rules of evidence which vary from state to state. An electronically stored image may be good evidence in one state but not in the other. So when you go to sue, can you prove your case under the laws of the state where you sue. Sound confusing? For the most part,we attorneys only pretend to understand this.

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viola thomas

02-10-2008 07:13:37




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: Is email a legally binding contract? in reply to ESQ, 12-12-2001 21:10:02  
I am a teacher in Kentucky with eleven years experience. The law in this state is that if you accept another job in another district (districts are different counties, you must work one year on a probationary contract. With that being said...I was solicited through a friend that works as a teacher in the montgomery county district. Her supervising principal saw my portfolio while my friend was using my materials. He asked to meet me. She contacted me. He and I met informally and later I was offered a job after a formal interview before the council. We corresponded through emails. He stated the council was impressed and they would like to have me on their "team". I thanked him and replied with a couple of questions concerning pay scale and would I be able to keep my tenure if I made this move. He responded with the salary amount and assured me every district goes through this formality. ..last statement made by him on the email..."You will have tenure" and signed/typed his first name. I immediatly accepted the position and forwarded the emails to my home computer....end of the year he does not renew my contract. Do I have a wrongful termination suit? Will the emails hold up in court?
I am aware you do NOT have to give free advice, but I am broke and disgusted with people in power.
Thanks for reading,
Viola

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