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Breaker Looses Contact

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Glenn F.

09-10-2007 10:33:06




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I have a 100 amp Square D breaker box in my shop. One of my breakers (20 amp) which is not heavily loaded, frequently looses contact and the row of lights goes out. I can then go and push against the breaker with the "heel" of my hand and it comes back on. I've switched breakers, cleaned/lightly filed contacts with laquer thinner, pinched the prongs on the breaker, made sure of a good ground, etc. I can't figure out what's wrong!

Any ideas?

Glenn F.

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CWL

09-11-2007 06:19:39




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
After reading through this again this morning I am inclined to agree with one of the other posters that you should check your wires on that circuit. I have seen broken wires that make enough contact to work part of the time until they burn apart.



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Bus Driver

09-11-2007 04:38:54




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
I read through all the comments thus far. The panel cover is designed to hold the breakers in place. Is the cover being properly installed? In 50 years experience, I have had fewer problems with SqD QO breakers than any other kind.



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chebby

09-10-2007 21:22:23




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
Also check the neutral bus screw tightness for that circuit. That could also cause intermittents.



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IH2444

09-10-2007 20:20:39




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
Is the contact that the breaker pushes down on burned loose or dirty ?
Turn off the mains of course before checking that.



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Bob

09-10-2007 14:22:07




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 Arc fault in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
Do you know what an "arc fault" is, and have you ever seen one?

I DOUBT it, or you would have replaced that whole breaker panel by now!

(An "arc fault" starts as a small arc from a poor connection, that won't trip the main breaker, then flares up into a massive arc when air gets ionized from the arc, plus the insulation chars in the area near the arc, and suddenly, the breaker box and service entrance wiring virtually blows up.)

A friend of my B-I-L's had that happen earlier this year, in a pretty new house. He had smelled something warm a time or two, and happened to be at home when the main panel "blew".

He was able to cut the power using a disconnect at the yard pole, and then put the fire out. The fire dept. was called, but the way I heard the story, he had it out when they got there.

If he had not been home, and acted quickly, likely the house would have been a total loss.

Think about that, before continuing to fiddle with the "bad" breaker box.

A 100 Amp box is pretty cheap, compared to what can happen!

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Glenn FitzGerald

09-10-2007 18:49:16




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 Re: Arc fault in reply to Bob, 09-10-2007 14:22:07  
What causes an "arc fault"? I have never had the chance to closely examine/take apart a breaker box, but how would one of them defect? I assume the connections and grid down the back of the 20 slot panel are pretty simple/stout. The cost of a new 100 amp breaker box isn't the worst part. It is quite a job feeding all those wires in there. Some of them, especially the main power wires coming in, are very heavy.

For now, I am turning the main breaker off whenever I'm not in the shop. Interestingly, I have not had a problem since my last attempt to fix it. It has worked properly for approx. 3-4 hours.

One thing I neglected to state in my original post is, the problem developed recently after I had to move a few breakers around to make room for a 50 amp breaker for my welder. Prior to that I had years of trouble free service. I have tightened and re-tightened all connections repeatedly.

Glenn FitzGerald

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Charles (in GA)

09-10-2007 14:00:05




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
Probably something to do with the fact it is a Square D panel. If it wasn't so difficult the one in my house would be sitting in the trash. Local electricians I know don't like them.

Charles



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paul

09-10-2007 21:35:04




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Charles (in GA), 09-10-2007 14:00:05  
Charles, that is news to me. The good series of Square D is the standard by which all other boxes are measured up around here. The only thing my electrician put in when i rewired the farm.

--->Paul



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Stan in Oly, WA

09-10-2007 17:00:40




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Charles (in GA), 09-10-2007 14:00:05  
Hi Charles,

I'm surprised. I thought Square D set the standard---at least for residential work. Has the quality of their products gone downhill in the last 10 or 15 years, or were they never the product I was led to believe they were?

What brand of residential electrical equipment do you like, let's say money not being an object?

All the best, Stan



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banjo

09-10-2007 20:38:27




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Stan in Oly, WA, 09-10-2007 17:00:40  
the square D homeline models are the cheap ones. they have the aluminum strips instead of copper.



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Glenn F.

09-11-2007 04:25:52




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to banjo, 09-10-2007 20:38:27  

Mine is not the home line.



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Glenn F.

09-10-2007 13:40:53




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
I'm appreciating your responses. It should be spelled "loses".



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Deano

09-10-2007 11:39:03




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
Sounds like there is an issue with that position in the panel. Try another circuit location.



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2t2@ia

09-10-2007 11:11:19




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
Have you checked the actual load that is on the breaker? Perhaps there is a unknown load somewhere in the circuit. Just my 2 cents worth.



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Glenn F.

09-10-2007 18:53:26




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to 2t2@ia, 09-10-2007 11:11:19  
If so, wouldn't that trip the breaker? The breaker has never tripped.

Glenn



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2t2@ia

09-10-2007 19:26:28




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 18:53:26  
You are abolutely right. I misunderstood the original post.



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JML755

09-10-2007 11:03:25




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
Can you move it to another spot in the panel? Maybe even move it to the other half of the box. That would tell you if the problem is in the box. Another possibility is the wire attaching to it may be "broken" inside the insulation. If so, this would be a dangerous fire hazard. Check for burnt or "brown" insulation on the wire attached to this breaker (or the neutral).



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CWL

09-10-2007 10:45:08




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 10:33:06  
When you say you switched breakers I assume that you tried a different breaker in the same spot and the problem stayed in the same spot. On your breaker box you should have two incoming lines that measure around 115v to ground and 230v to each other. Does the 115v side that the light breaker is on have any other breakers on it? When your lights go out do these other breakers loose power also? I'm guessing that the terminal bar that your breaker hooks to is loosing power due to a bad connection somewhere. When you push on the breaker it puts pressure on the terminal bar moving it a little so it can arc to get connection again. I would make sure all your connections are tight and corrosion free. Good luck!

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Glenn F.

09-10-2007 19:01:19




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to CWL, 09-10-2007 10:45:08  
It is a twenty slot box; ten on each side. When the problem occurs it is isolated to only the one breaker. (It is the one in the top right position.) All other breakers/positions continue to opreate properly.

Yes, by switching breakers, I have replaced the "problem" breaker with a new one and still the problem persists.

Glenn



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Mattlt

09-11-2007 10:46:19




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 Re: Breaker Looses Contact in reply to Glenn F., 09-10-2007 19:01:19  
Do you have any open slots in the breaker box, so you could move the "defective" breaker to another slot, to see if it works/fails there?

I'm leaning toward what some others have said - the wiring in the circuit that's failing. It's heating up enough to trip the circuit, but maybe has enough of a chance to cool off, thus allowing the breaker to be reset?

You mentioned lights. Are the bulbs sized properly? (correct wattage) Are any of the fixtures el-cheapo Menards/Home Depot specials? I've seen some of these cheap fixtures get hot and go belly up. (and yes, even start fires)

Maybe try removing bulbs one at a time to see if you can isolate a bad fixture.

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