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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options

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thynes

01-18-2005 20:05:16

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I am starting to narrow down my selecting of a new air compressor. It will be 240 volts and about 35 amps. The circuit breaker box, which is right near where the compressor will be, has no more empty slots. My house is 15 years old and I have 200 amp service. The panel is manufactured by Square D, I think. Too cold and too late to go in the garage and check for sure!

I seem to remember somewhere that I can substitute 1/2 width breakers to double up a few slots. This can open up two slots needed for the 240 volt breaker. Whatdayathink about that?

I would rather not install another sub-panel for only 1 circuit...

Thanks, Tim

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wdtom

01-19-2005 18:34:08

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to thynes, 01-18-2005 20:05:16

Have the same problem. If I add any more I will be doing the same thing. Have already looked into it. Square D makes Tandem breakers for their QO line of breakers and the Homeline series. Homeline breakers are 1" wide, QO series are 3/4" wide and have a indicator to show when they have been tripped. Looking in McMaster Carr I see Homeline 20 amp tandem breakers listed, but an electrician friend looked up for me and I know they make them for the QO series too, in 15 and 20 amp. Probably make 15 amp for the Homeline series too. Go to an electrical supply and they will have them or get them for you.

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david - OR

01-19-2005 06:16:24

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to thynes, 01-18-2005 20:05:16

If you use one or more of the double breakers, you can get into trouble if you just combine circuits which currently use full width breakers and are adjacent in the panel. Some circuits may have been run as multiwire branch circuits (with a shared neutral). If you double up two adjacent breakers, you move the circuits from opposite sides of the neutral to the same side, which (if they were multi-wire branch circuits) can double the potential neutral current and overload the attendant wiring.

There are a couple of options -- inspect the circuits in question and verify that they are not multiwire branch circuits, or skip one breaker space and combine two circuits which are two spaces are apart in the the panel.

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thynes

01-19-2005 06:23:17

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to david - OR, 01-19-2005 06:16:24

David,

Never thought about shared neutrals, is that legal? I do have two circuits that are dedicated with only one outlet each, that I put in. By using those I would eliminate any possibility of shared overcurrent neutrals.

As always this forum is a great place for information!

Tim

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Chuck MI

01-19-2005 17:25:16

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to thynes, 01-19-2005 06:23:17

I'm pretty sure it's legal for comercial use, but I don't know about residentual. At work with 3 phase, we have many neutrals with 3 breakers, all on different lines.

Legal or not, it may have already been done. Do it yourselfers have a tendency to break the rules without realizing that some of them are there for a reason.

Chuck

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Bus Driver

01-19-2005 05:13:52

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to thynes, 01-18-2005 20:05:16

The breakers you mention are called tandem breakers. Some panels will accept them, some will not. One other option is to add a subpanel. Two single pole breakers could be removed from your present panel, replaced with a double pole breaker rated up to 100 amps. The new breaker would supply the subpanel and the two circuits ousted from the original panel would moved to the subpanel. Your service would still be limited to 200 amps.

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Errin OH

01-18-2005 20:32:24

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to thynes, 01-18-2005 20:05:16

I don't know about half width, but I have several single width double breakers. (Two in one) One in a single slot replaces two breakers, freeing up one slot. I used them in place of the ligths and low load outlets to free up slots for a welder.

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Big Jim

01-18-2005 20:29:33

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to thynes, 01-18-2005 20:05:16

Your idea will work providing 2 things:
1. You do not exceed the 200 amp total load on your service and
2. You do not exceed 42 total breakers in the panel (NEC limit)

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buickanddeere

01-19-2005 16:14:53

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to Big Jim, 01-18-2005 20:29:33

Same problem here. The 200Amp 42 circuit panel is full and the feed to the drive shed service needs tied in. It's legal to upgrade to a 60 curcuit 200 Amp panel here. A better fit for where my panel is too than finding a spot for a 2nd panel.

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Charles (in GA)

01-19-2005 17:19:47

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Re: Breaker Panel Full, Expansion Options in reply to buickanddeere, 01-19-2005 16:14:53

Never seen a 60 circut panel. Since the NEC forbids more than 42 circuts per panel, I didn't imagine that anyone made them.

One thing to do is put in a 100 amp 220 breaker and use it to feed a sub panel.

Best thing to do is upgrade to a 400 amp feed from the power company, 400 amp meter socket, dual 200 amp disconnects feeding dual 200 amp 40 position circut panels. Expensive.

I have a seperate meter on my outbuilding. While the power bill would be cheaper on one 400 amp meter, the cost of replacing the underground feed to the house with 400 amp service, new 400 amp meter socket, new dual disconnects (I have none now), and new 4 wire to the house panel (just three wire now) and a new house panel with isolated neturals and gounds (meaning pulling some new wires to make things reach) in a house I was living in, was beyond reasonable. I settled for a second meter. It came in handy when the underground feed failed on a Saturday nite. I ran an extension cord (12 gauge) from the outbuilding to the house to run the fridge and a light, and went to bed. Monday morning the power company came out and found the burned wire(s) and fixed it. Something to be said for dual power sources.

Charles

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