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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Brazing qeestion

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Jim-IL

10-12-2004 19:52:37




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I'm a novice welder with an AC225 stick welder. It came with some brass rod and I'm wondering what you can tell me about brazing.




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Coloken

10-13-2004 09:24:45




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Jim-IL, 10-12-2004 19:52:37  
One of the problems with answering questions is that you never know the level of the questioner. If a beginner or highly knowlegable. if I am talking down, I appoligise. You said a stick welder. If that is all you have then you will need a carbon arc torch for it to braze with. The more you practise the better.



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Jim-IL

10-14-2004 05:41:12




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Coloken, 10-13-2004 09:24:45  
What can you tell me about a carbon arc torch. Are they used for other things other than brazing? What would one run costwise?



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Pile Buck

10-14-2004 06:44:23




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Jim-IL, 10-14-2004 05:41:12  
Hi Jim. I never saw anyone braze with a carbon arc torch personally. Seems like I seen it in a magazine years ago. I can tell you all you need to know about a carbon arc torch in one word “RUN”, no just kidding, when carbon arcing there is one thing you can count on, you are going to get burned, there is no way around it. The torch looks like a real heavy-duty electrode holder, with a v-grooved pad that rotates 360* this is where you place the rod. There will be two or three holes in this pad under the V, this is where the compressed air comes out from. I always preferred the three hole ones. Depending on the power of the machine determines how much rod stick out you can have. The holes should be under the rod, seems to always work better that way, Now they have round rods and flat rods, The round rods are great for digging right into a weld to remove the little nasty things that nobody wants, and the flat rods are great for flushing welds off to the base metal. I don’t recommend carbon arcing with a good machine, and never with a motor driven machine. Carbon arcing will kill a good machine in shot order. To sum it up, avoid carbon arcing!! Whenever I was asked if I could run a carbon arc, I would reply NO! Oh another thing, a plasma arc is a lot better in many ways, but can’t do everything a carbon arc can do!

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Fred OH

10-14-2004 07:40:58




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Pile Buck, 10-14-2004 06:44:23  
PB...I think you are getting an air arc torch confused with a carbon arc heating torch...but your description of an air arc is on the money. I"ve got a Hobart portable out in the shop with some slung solder that says so. Fred OH



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Pile Buck

10-14-2004 08:32:39




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Fred OH, 10-14-2004 07:40:58  
Hi Fred, now when you say carbon arc heating torch, are you talking about one of those things that have two rods that are positioned at a 45* to each other and meet at the tip? Reminds me of a charcoal bricket lighter. If so, I have never used one of those. Air arc torch, now I know way more than I want to know about those things. Terminology, that will get you every time, I guess it depends what side of the mountain you’re on. LOL

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Fred OH

10-15-2004 06:17:34




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Pile Buck, 10-14-2004 08:32:39  
PB...yep, you got it...come to think of it...it would make a good charcoal lighter. You can just add the carbon arc torch in the same catagorie as the air arc torch and you got it again. They might be okay to heat up a frozen nut on a bolt-but thats about it unless your out of oxygen or acetylene and need to heat up the rim of the chamber pot. Fred OH



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Jerry L /az

10-14-2004 07:04:43




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Pile Buck, 10-14-2004 06:44:23  
Say Buck can you explain why or how a carbon arc will damage your welder. I have a arcair that we used to blow out frozen pins on crane booms and did not seem to hurt the machine. ..... Jer



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Pile Buck

10-14-2004 07:31:11




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Jerry L /az , 10-14-2004 07:04:43  
Hi Jerry. The way it was explained to me many moons ago was, every time you strike an arc it gouges the armature somewhat, so in time the welder is not as smooth as it should be. I know in the past I have had to run a stone across the armature to remove the little gouges. Now on motor driven machines you only have to worry about the catastrophic things like snapping the cranks when you are maxing out the machines. Next time someone is carbon arcing around you watch the welding leads, they jump somewhat, correct. Now imagine running a motor driven machine for all she’s worth, every time an arc is struck the machine torques real bad, sooner or later the crank will break. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt! Oh far as having to arc out boom pins, tell the boys to use some never-seize on them pins before they drive them in, geezs! :>)

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Jerry L /az

10-14-2004 21:42:58




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Pile Buck, 10-14-2004 07:31:11  
Pile We arced the pins to pull the boom they were worn and the boom had settled so you could not drive them out probably been in there for 20yr. with no grease.geezs !:>)



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T_Bone

10-14-2004 13:04:35




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Pile Buck, 10-14-2004 07:31:11  
Hi Jim,

The carbon arc process uses a piece of copper clad carbon rod in a electrode holder using DCEN or straight polarity.

The CU clad carbon electrode is prepareed buy pealing away about 3/4" of the copper jacket then you shapren the carbon on a bench grinder to a fine point then snap off the point "tip" of the carbon then the electrode is "stuck" on top of the filler rod then as the carbon just turns a dull red it's slightly lifted off the filler rod and the weld process begins.

Another good use of carbon arc is to soften case harden steel for drilling holes. The carbon is again stuck on the place to be drilled and after the correct heat soak time, the machine (6v battery) is disconnected from the carbon "then" the carbon electrode is removed. The hole then can be drilled very easy with any common HS drill bit as the base metal has become soft.

Here's a tip I used for making great looking welds. Clean the CU back about 3/4", sharpen the carbon to a fine point from the CU to the end, then snap off the point with your thumb, just the tit(y), then lay your filler rod where you want the weld then stick the carbon on top of the rod, then wait until the carbon turns red, then lift the carbon slightly until the filler rod starts to flow. Let the puddle flow to the width wanted, then move forward.

The key to a even puddle look is to keep the carbon the same distance above the filler rod. It won't make a perfect straight edge weld but close as the toe of the weld will be alittle wobbled.

As Buck stated, watch your duty cycle as it takes alot of dead short amps to start the weld process and it can ruin 20% duty cycle machine easy.

T_Bone

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lucas boy

10-14-2004 06:33:47




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Jim-IL, 10-14-2004 05:41:12  

yocan get them for 100-150 .. they creat a very hot flame but dont cut metal.if you have oxy acet torch you dont really need a carbon tourch..



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lucas boy

10-13-2004 08:01:40




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 Re: Brazing qeestion in reply to Jim-IL, 10-12-2004 19:52:37  

you get a can of flux,heat the rod a little and stick it in the flux.then heat the two metals till cherry red and melt the brass rod into them,,thats about it..you can get brazing rod now with the flux on it but if you dont use it the fluz will fall off after a while..lucas



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