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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Brands of antifreeze

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Phil

09-18-2003 19:19:50




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I have been using a popular name brand of ethylene glycol antifreeze for a number of years. I have a number of vehicles and tractors that need an antifreeze change. My question is if it makes a difference if I use the name brand or another brand that costs $2 to $3 less per gallon. Does it all come out of the same spigot? :o)




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GG

09-21-2003 17:04:15




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 Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Phil, 09-18-2003 19:19:50  
I have been a mechanic for about fourty years. A few years ago, I was told by a chemical engineer that Prestone has an additive that causes corrosion, and was told what that additive was. This engineers opinion was backed up a few years later but I cannot remember what the ingredient was. Because of these two opinions, I have not used Prestone for many years, and have never had a corrosion problem. I remember one of the engineers stated that there was a lot of competition in antifreeze industry but not in the corrosion cleaning field. Prestone sells a number of cooling system cleaning products. I know this is just my opinion and many will disagree. As an added note: Distilled water has no impurities and will not even conduct electricity. Many doctors recommend that a young child drink distilled water. Water itself is corrosive, and over time will destroy anything! Again---Just My Opinion---

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Ralph

09-19-2003 12:36:05




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 Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Phil, 09-18-2003 19:19:50  
I work for a large carrier that has thousands of diesel powered tractors, these tractors have Detroit diesel, Cummins, Cat, Volvo and Mercedes engines that run approximately 1 to 1.2 million miles before being replaced or overhauled. The antifreeze is NEVER changed or drained, nor are sca's added nor do we use water filters as part of a pm program. The antifreeze is tested every 25000 miles for ph and specific gravity and adjusted accordingly. The same antifreeze that is in a tractor from the factory could be the same antifreeze removed when an overhaul is done and then put back in the new engine, we never buy antifreeze. Invest in some ph test strips and adjust accordingly. At home, I use as cheap of an antifreeze as I can find, never had a problem.

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The Red Barron

09-20-2003 08:16:47




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 Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Ralph, 09-19-2003 12:36:05  
Say Ralph, I was interested to read of the PH strips. How would adjust the balance once one has obtained a reading?



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RJ-Az

09-19-2003 19:18:31




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 Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Ralph, 09-19-2003 12:36:05  
I also work for a large fleet and end up losing some coolant from either hose or water pump replacement. We do replace the SCA conditioner every 30,000 mi. We get our test strips from carQuest.They test PH, freeze point and sca level.



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John

09-19-2003 10:02:36




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 Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Phil, 09-18-2003 19:19:50  
Hi, I run a testing lab that tests antifreeze, oils and fuels. Antifreeze manufacturers blend to a minimum spec. If it's $2 to $3 cheaper it's going to be dilluted. You will have less protection available in all respects. I prefer the new propolyene glycols myself. They protect as well if not better than the ethlyene glycols do. Also they won't kill off your pets, etc.



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David - OR

09-19-2003 07:43:34




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 Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Phil, 09-18-2003 19:19:50  
You can use almost anything in iron gasoline engines, especially if you change it every 2 to 3 years. Those with aluminum blocks or cylinder heads might consider a higher silicate formula for better corrosion control.

Diesel engines need a supplemental cooling additive to combat cavitation and pinholing of cylinder walls. These SCAs don't particularly play well when mixed with high silicate antifreeze -- the silicate tends to precipitate out of solution and clog the cooling passages. Different brands of auto antifreeze have different amounts of silicate. It may or may not be possible to figure this out from the myriad of selections at the auto parts store.

A truck stop or a tractor parts place might be a better place to shop for diesel engine coolant.

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Vern-MI

09-19-2003 07:30:40




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 Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Phil, 09-18-2003 19:19:50  
Never had a problem using Prestone. I have had problems with some other brands where the "additives" began to precipitate out in the form of white clumps. I wrote to the manufacturer and they responded saying that it should not be used and that the additive package had deteriorated and was precipitating out. Always use distilled water for the mix.



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ErnieD

09-19-2003 15:27:35




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 Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Vern-MI, 09-19-2003 07:30:40  
I disagree on the distilled water recommendation, distilled water is very corrosive. You want softened water, so no insoluble scale will be formed. This advice came to me from our boiler engineer.



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CNKS

09-20-2003 13:35:40




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 Re: Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to ErnieD, 09-19-2003 15:27:35  
True distilled water has little calcium and magnesium salts in it. These cause most of the corrosion. If the softened water uses sodium chloride (table salt), the Ca and Mg are replaced by sodium. More soluble, definitely, but still corrosive. That said, I hve mixed antifreeze with distilled water for years, and still get corrosion. Probably would be more if used tap water. The comments about softened water are interesting, but I can't see putting salt water, sodium or otherwise, in my radiator.

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Mac

09-19-2003 16:51:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to ErnieD, 09-19-2003 15:27:35  
I will agree with ernie, I used to maintain 2 boilers and we had a water softener system that provided water just for that purpose.



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Tom

09-19-2003 06:17:02




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 Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Phil, 09-18-2003 19:19:50  
My lifetime experience is that I have NEVER been burned using Prestone. I have lost radiators using cheaper brands. IMHO



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gatractorman

09-19-2003 03:14:13




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 Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Phil, 09-18-2003 19:19:50  
Yes, there is only a few companies that make all the antifreeze there is made.



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Wes

09-21-2003 13:51:45




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 Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to gatractorman, 09-19-2003 03:14:13  
Got to agree with gatractorman. Been there seen it. The only difference between a lot of the antifreeze brands is the color of the plastic beads fed into the bottle extruder before the bottle is filled out of the same spigot. It's manufactured to a minimum spec then bottled and sold. Just don't mix the "orange" antifreeze with the "green".



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rustyfarmall

09-19-2003 06:08:37




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 Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to gatractorman, 09-19-2003 03:14:13  
Years ago, I worked at a local auto dealership, they bought anti-freeze in bulk, and stored it in a 275 gallon tank. They always bought from the lowest bidder, so the brands differed from year to year, and since there was always some still in the tank from last year, the various brands became pretty well mixed, nobody, or no vehicle, ever suffered any ill effects from using mixed brands of anti-freeze.
Go with the least expensive brand you can find.

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joe

10-07-2003 18:54:24




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 Re: Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to rustyfarmall, 09-19-2003 06:08:37  
the place i work sells rockhill anti freeze and peak..back of lable says manufactured by old world industries..peak is 3 bucks higher..paying for the name i guess..



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Ol Chief

09-19-2003 19:53:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to rustyfarmall, 09-19-2003 06:08:37  
Wow,We sure can get a diversification of opinions.I do not know a thing about anti-freeze so Iwould maybe shop this question somewhere else having read all of the above.I do think there is merit to testing for ph factor.I do not mean to sound like a smartallic at all but have had lots of years in charge of operating high pressure marine boilers.Chief eng.40 years on merchant vessels.Boiler pressures 600 up to 1000 psi.Distilled water is the only water used in these boilers.Ph.is critical along with several other chemicals that must be in proper balance and therefor are tested every twelve hours.Some of these boilers evaporate 250,000 pounds water per hour.If the ph is not properly maintained the boiler metal will simply disappear.Iwill cast my vote with the litmus test and distilled water if it is available, but have small knowledge regarding safety of mixing solutions or what is best product.Obviously there can be lots of unseen disolved minerals in a wide range of available tap water.These minerals are transformed to their solid state in the presence of heat transfer process and are the cause of having to have your radiator rodded and acid cleaned.Farther to that fact; If the coolant solution is acidic (low ph )and mineral content is high you form a low voltage battery in the presence of the different metals in the system.Then a corrosion condition exists.Sorry to have been long winded.

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Slowpoke

09-24-2003 22:59:10




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Ol Chief, 09-19-2003 19:53:39  
Would anyone care to comment on the use of clean rainwater for the antifreeze mix?



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GG

09-25-2003 20:29:44




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Brands of antifreeze in reply to Slowpoke, 09-24-2003 22:59:10  
My thinking is this: Rain water or well water is better then chlorinated (city) water. Chlorine is corrosive. My understanding is that distilled water is steam that has settled to liquid form. What contaminents could distilled water have? I work in a large aluminum plant and we use distilled water as an electrical insulator. Electrical conduction of water is the contaminents contained in the water. If I am wrong, someone set me straight.

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