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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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12 volt mess

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Mitch Hawkins

02-25-2006 06:56:07




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got my dad old 40 9n from my brother, and what a mess. Do anyone has 12 volt circuit diagram, my I&T shop manual only has 6 volt in it thank mitch




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Dave L

02-25-2006 14:16:31




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Mitch Hawkins, 02-25-2006 06:56:07  
A wiring mess on a 12V conversion isn't the fault of 12 VOLTS it's the fault of someone that didn't know what they were doing when installing it.As far as not werking on them because they are messed up,no big deal there are some of us out here that are not AFRAID to help someone with a problem that is so extremely easy to fix.12 volt is just handier these days on a werkin machine.Show tractors keep original absolutely that's what it's all about but when it comes to usage it just makes more sense to have things asuser friendly as possible,hell if I had to jump my tractor for some reason and it was 6 volt that would be a pain because right now everything else I have is 12.I'm sure I just upset some folks but ya can't please everyone all the time.
Dave

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Dan Hill

02-26-2006 05:47:05




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Dave L, 02-25-2006 14:16:31  
Not afraid to work on the messes.Known how but wont do it because of liability issues.The last guy that worked on the mess will take the fall if it burns up.55 years in mechanics and electronics taught me to beware.Welders are at risk big time.I put a trailer hitch on a jeep for a friend.He used it to haul a rider lawn mower on a light trailer.One day he pulls into his yard with a 2 horse trailer hitched on to the jeep.I tell him right off that A jeep with a tin can unit body shouldnt be used for that kind of load.Brakes and lights are not hooked up.He hauled two horses for a lady friend.I looked over the hitch after several of these overloads.All ok.He hooked onto a load that was heavy enough to bend the 1/2 steel hitch tongue down about 3/4 inch.Still ok.

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Ron/PA

02-25-2006 08:42:57




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Mitch Hawkins, 02-25-2006 06:56:07  
Mitch, here's the direct link to the conversion diagrams on Myoldfords.com Note that there are two, you will want the second one marked for front mount distributors.
Ron



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Ken Crisman

02-25-2006 07:31:31




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Mitch Hawkins, 02-25-2006 06:56:07  
Why would you want to go 12 volt . Stay with 6 volt & fix the problems if your having any . All you're doing with 12v is covering up whatever electrical starting problem you have . Keep it original . Ken



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Ron/PA

02-25-2006 08:35:34




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Ken Crisman, 02-25-2006 07:31:31  
Ken, not all conversions are done to mask mechanical or electrical problems. I've built 2 spot, boom sprayers that are 3 point hitch and use 12 volt solenoids to activate each boom. For that reason and a few lighting needs we converted our easy starting 9 -n to 12 volt. Keeping an N original is great for trailer queens and driveway dragons, but now and then a working tractor needs to be upgraded, just to meet the standards of the 20th century, who knows what we'll have to do to keep them working as we drag them kicking and screaming into the 21st.
By the way, our 8N and Farmall H are both still 6 volt, the 9-n, WD, and Super A have all been converted, not due to problems but to make them more usefull on the farm. Ron

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Dan Hill

02-25-2006 12:32:14




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Ron/PA, 02-25-2006 08:35:34  
My 6v tractor has a 12v sprayer that has its own 12v battery.You could have done the same for the solenoids.I worked on 2 tractors that have been converted.Both were messed up.I did mechanical work only, wont touch converted messes.My tractor is a worker not a display piece.Starts on 6v winter and summer.



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Ron/PA

02-25-2006 13:12:37




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Dan Hill, 02-25-2006 12:32:14  
I agree, we did that for a long time, and it worked OK. However it's bear trying to find lighting components for 6 volts that will do the job and are readily available when needed. I'm talking about 2 headlights and at least 3 rear work lights. At the time much of our field work had to be done at night due to off farm jobs, and working on a running corn picker with less than optimum lighting, is a bad idea as my 9 fingered nephew can attest to. To re-state our position, we've never converted a tractor to correct an electrical, or vaccuum problem, only to make it work with the equipment we're using. Any tractor we have will start on 6 volt or be repaired as we use something or everything daily around here. If I were to convert another one, I'd use Larry's round coil conversion to do it. Working on a conversion need be no harder than working on a 6 volt system, in fact for many of the younger folks, it eliminates the confusion of a positive ground system.
Ron

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dan hill

02-26-2006 05:02:38




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Ron/PA, 02-25-2006 13:12:37  
One half of all cars and trucks were positive ground in 1940.Too many owners are trying to fix old tractors without a basic knowledge of what they are doing.My last head lite burn out was no problem.Showed to a CNH parts man and he put a new one on the counter.He took the old bulb and put it in his dumpster.Since it was cracked and in the broken glass category I couldnt get rid of it in our towns wacky trash system.Another problem I have with 12v conversions is they lessen the demand for 6v parts and this causes trouble for owners who are satisfied with maintaining the old tractors as they were built.Jap alternators hanging on to a 9N with bubble gum welded junk steel brackets are a sad sight.Even worse when the alternator rubs on the front tire on turns.Last but not least a 12 v battery doubles your chance of cell failure.

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Ron/PA

02-26-2006 12:03:04




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to dan hill, 02-26-2006 05:02:38  
How true, the 1940 reference is accurate, now how many of the posters here can recall the'40s or the '50s maybe even the '60s? Show me a CNH dealer open on a sunday. or even a saturday. Ours won't even open on Saturday during planting or harvesting seasons.
My first truck was a '73 mack cabover tractor and it was positive ground. Lessening the demand for 6 volt components, should leave more components for you tried and true original devotees. American built alternators look just as bad hanging on any machine. Poor workmanship is not limited to any voltage. In fact our local shop converts our generators to 12 volt and that solves the appearance problem. You still won't convince me that a true working tractor needs to be confined to any given voltage. Meet me on a common ground, and show me how to get our field work done, in 6 Volt, and with a fair cost comparison and I'll give in. Ron

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Clintmn

02-26-2006 07:59:02




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to dan hill, 02-26-2006 05:02:38  
Dan, I don't know that conversions are significantly lessening the demand for 6v parts, but I definitely see your point. Call it a conspiracy theory, but there already seems to be a problem with the heart of the 6v system- the battery. A few years back, I worked for my neighbor as a hired man. He had a couple of older tractors he kept around for mowing, moving augers, blading the drive, etc. It seemed like no matter how much maintenance we did on batteries and charging systems, the blame things would need a new battery every year! He also had a 54 international truck that was the same way. I converted the truck to 12v because it would not start without a jump when hot. (inadequate heat shielding on the starter I believe.) Since going to 12v, I don't think he's had to replace the battery since. Any body else notice this? He usually bought interstate batteries from the local elevator. My theory is that the battery companies do not want to be in the 6v business, but as long as the demand is still out there, they're going to take you guys for all they can, so they're not putting their modern technology into the "vintage" batteries. By the way, your jingoistic comment about "Jap" alternators is offensive. It's a global community. Get used to it.

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dan hill

02-27-2006 03:26:46




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Clintmn, 02-26-2006 07:59:02  
About the only change in battery construction is they no longer use wood seperators in the cells.Call Interstate and ask if they make faulty 6v batteries.I met a man who survived the Bataan death march .They cut his throat because he could not move fast enough.He survived but his mind was gone.I am old enough to remember pearl harbor, my wifes uncle was on a ship there.One of the Zeros that hit the battleship Missouri had Firestone tires on it.The company that built that plane is selling cars and trucks in the US today.

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8nstyle

02-25-2006 07:09:15




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 Re: 12 volt mess in reply to Mitch Hawkins, 02-25-2006 06:56:07  
Check it out at

http://www.myoldfords.com/wire.asp



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