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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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1 problem found reckon more?

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D Thomas

11-09-2005 15:58:51




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Now that the hood is off, the front end is swung to the side, and the front cover is off the engine, I see that the fiber cam gear is busted. Before I get to my question lets rewind a tad bit. Engine running fine and then all of a sudden alot of pinging,bumping and grinding began and then the engine died. Now for the questions: since I have torn down this far all I see I need is the fiber gear. Money is kindda limited so I really do not want to do work not really not needed but I do not want to just replace the gear and put back together to find out more is bad. So that said (typed) could the breaking of the fiber gear have possible broke or messed up anything else? I know there is a possibility of anything but what are the likelyhood? Or did the gear break because of another problem? Would it be best while this far into it to remove the oil pan check out everything really good and pull the head and check out all there? Or could all that noise and feeling when the motor went kaput have all been from the gear breaking? Also I noticed that while spinning the govenor gear that it had a very/very slite wobble to it. Could its bent shaft have been the cause of the fiber gear to bust or the busting of the fiber gear have caused the bending of the shaft? And since its so very slite would it need to be replaced. When I say slite, I mean if not really looking at it and I did not have in a fresh new pair of contacts with a new prescription, I would have more than likely never seen it. Thanks for any info or input.

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jerrycpp

11-10-2005 05:18:46




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to D Thomas, 11-09-2005 15:58:51  
Fibre gears don't last forever - likely it was just tired. I'd suggest remove the pan and get the remains out of there too. I've never put a gear on while in the engine, but in the shop warming the gear in your wife's electric skillet and oil will allow a press-fit bearing or gear to slip right on. You want the gear too hot to touch, but don't set the oil on fire. Put it all the way on quickly - if you stop, that's where it sits. Do NOT use a torch! (You can buy a used skillet at Good Will) Try it - what's to loose?Good luck!

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Jim.UT

11-09-2005 20:07:48




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to D Thomas, 11-09-2005 15:58:51  
Here's an option



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ZANE

11-09-2005 18:30:16




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to D Thomas, 11-09-2005 15:58:51  
I'm glad I was wrong about the oil pump!

I doudbt that the timing gear breaking did any more damage to the engine. These engines can't do damage to the valves when the cam stops turning as in some engines with overhead valve. The pistons can't hit the valves.

Those old fibre timing gears are famous for coming apart and it ain't because they were imports. Just old and tired.

I have replaced the pressed on gears without taking the cam out but it has been so long I don't remeber exactly how I did it. I'm pretty sure you can put a big screw driver behind the gear to pull the cam out a little and then using a soft steel drift of a slightly smaller diameter than the cam drive the cam back while prying on the gear to get the old gear hub off. Driving the new gear back on is where it gets complicated. I'm afraid that the welch plug may be driven out the back of the engine if it is just simply hammered on at the front of the engine but not sure????? Anybody else done this and remeber how to reinstall the new gear with out having to pull the valves, guides and lifters etc????

Zane

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Hobo,NC

11-10-2005 04:40:26




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to ZANE, 11-09-2005 18:30:16  
Drill & tap the end of the cam, install a stud and use it to press the gear on. Done it alot on cars, trucks and Farmall tractors but have never seen a press on gear on a N. The cam izz very EZ to drill and tap. If the cam shaft izz keyed should be EZ to do. one a bunch of'em on GM 2.5 engines FWD were theirs not much room turns a engine R&R into a 2 hr. job and a real profit maker. I got to do'in so regular at one time I got bit on one, diagnoic's wuz iffin ya had a no start and it sounded like you had no compression look in the oil fill hole and the rockers did not move the cam gear had striped, I know ya with me now so throw a cam gear set at it. No go the cam and crank gear wuz ok. So back to the no start and why the rockers did not move, broke cam are crank, NO the ring gear on the flywheel had came loose so add to the diagnoices CHECK TO SEE IFFIN THE CRANK TURNS WITH THE STARTER, Ya never fergit the hard lessons, gravey turned to sh!t

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Paul K in IL

11-09-2005 18:07:15




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to D Thomas, 11-09-2005 15:58:51  
Is the cam gear the pressed on type or did you luck out and there are 4 bolts that hold the cam gear to the camshaft?

If it is a pressed on gear you have about 10% of the job done unless someone on this board knows of a way to press the gear on the camshaft with it in the block.

Paul K.



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Russ SoCal

11-09-2005 16:47:57




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to D Thomas, 11-09-2005 15:58:51  
D.T.
You're gonna hafta get the parts of the cam gear out of there and I can't remember right now if they can enter the oil pan from where they are. I'm thinking they can and you'll have to drop the pan to keep them from entering the oil pump. Beyond that, I would just go with a new gear and see how the mesh works out. If there are no problems there, do a compression check. If that's good and previous oil presssure was OK, reassemble it and go. Onliest question is HOW MUCH of a wobble? Do you have access to a dial indicator? Both for the governor gear and the new cam gear. Hate to think the problem was a bent camshaft. Not likely, but it happens. HTH
Russ

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Taylor

11-10-2005 07:25:57




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to Russ SoCal, 11-09-2005 16:47:57  
I am the guy who put the long bolt in the top governor mount hole and busted the teeth off my cam gear. Yes, the pieces will fall into the pan. My 48 8N has four bolts holding the cam gear on. Not much of a problem getting the new one on.



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Bruce (VA)

11-09-2005 16:36:50




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to D Thomas, 11-09-2005 15:58:51  
That cam gear broke for a reason; if you're lucky, it's because it's a cheap import replacement or it was installed wrong. That's my educated guess based upon what I've read in your posts, but you are not going to get any closer to finding other problems until you do a compression check, or pull the head & pan. A compression check is a lot easier.



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FarmerDawn

11-09-2005 16:26:00




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to D Thomas, 11-09-2005 15:58:51  
I just have to interrupt long enough to say how impressed I am by how you're doing this. You just go to "break something down" and darned if the next day, there you are and it's been done! I am just . . . inspired. It's just awesome, to watch you do this (so to speak, since it's all by internet). Way to go, D. Thomas!!!!!



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Stickler

11-09-2005 18:14:00




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to FarmerDawn, 11-09-2005 16:26:00  
Dawn, give yourself a few more years and you'll be one that the newbies are in awe of. These machines are pretty simple contraptions!



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FarmerDawn

11-09-2005 18:20:59




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to Stickler, 11-09-2005 18:14:00  
Well, THAT's an amazing thought! Thanks for the vote of confidence, Stickler! Wow . . . wouldn't that be something? (My immediate next thought after writing those words was: "Naw, in a few years I'll just be getting to the part where I'm saying, 'OK, now how do I get the manifold off again?'" LOL) But you know, that would be so cool . . . to know what I'm doing and be able to do it with aplomb! Wow. :-)

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old

11-09-2005 18:28:36




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to FarmerDawn, 11-09-2005 18:20:59  
Shoot you just need to sit back and do a few things and as time goes by you get better at it. Shoot when I started playing with engine I was slow and didn't know anything and now I can almost rebuild one in a day. But if I do that I'm not able to do anything for a week.



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FarmerDawn

11-09-2005 18:36:27




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to old, 11-09-2005 18:28:36  
LOL! Well, I guess if you do all that in a day, you DESERVE not to do anything else for the rest of the week! :-) I guess I can "do a few things" and let time go by and see what happens, though. Sounds like a good plan. I mean, I am starting to be able to "do a few things", and they're certainly things I couldn't do before -- which is really neat.



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old

11-09-2005 18:54:18




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to FarmerDawn, 11-09-2005 18:36:27  
But I also did start working on engines when I was 9 years old and have been doing that ever since. Just that now with my back etc what I did years ago in a day now takes me a week to do. LOL



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FarmerDawn

11-10-2005 05:23:52




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to old, 11-09-2005 18:54:18  
9 years old. Wow. That is really neat, that you got to do that then. It just makes me smile this morning, to think of it. Nice way to start the day!



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old

11-10-2005 05:52:36




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to FarmerDawn, 11-10-2005 05:23:52  
The story goes sort of like this. My dad got a new lawn mower, it was a toro. And he gave me the old one to play with. My mow would always start and his new one would go to the shop. I probably opened the engine up on my mower 30 plus times just looking at how it was put togeather. Ever since then I have played with engines and loved it. I was an ET in the Navy, and I've also been a welder, truck driver, a tire man, done home building and a few other things so these tractors are easy for me to work on and fix.

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old

11-09-2005 18:51:13




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 Re: 1 problem found reckon more? in reply to FarmerDawn, 11-09-2005 18:36:27  
But I also did start working on engines when I was 9 years old and have been doing that ever since. Just that now with my back etc what I did years ago in a day now takes me a week to do. LOL



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