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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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12 volt convertion help

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Mel

12-28-2004 08:09:12




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Hi all, My 8n will not start when it's real cold, it just dosn't seem to spin fast enough so I'm thinking I'll convert to a 12 volt system, anyone know of a 12 volt system I can buy and where?

Thanks again

Mel




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Tymoc

12-28-2004 20:24:58




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
I think a lot of guys ask if they think 12v conversion will fix their woes when they really want someone to tell them to go ahead and do it. So....go ahead and do it. I personally don't think something thats worked for 50yrs needs changed but if you feel better doing it go ahead. Its your tractor. Put a 24volt system on it if you want. You own it. My brother and I own between us a 528n, 40something 9n, 57 ford dump truck and a few motorcycles...all 6volt and all work. Yes they spin slower then 12volt but they spin fast enough to start. Most people are scared of 6v cause they sound like a 12v with a battery ready to go dead. So if you like the sound of a faster spinning starter then do it. Good luck.

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john veinot

12-28-2004 18:24:54




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
here in Nova Scotia, its been -35 celsuis, my tractor sets outside uncovered, 10-30 deisel engine oil, its a 12 volt system makeover, it rolls over 3 times and kicks off.new plugs, points, wires and cap.all machines are different beasts, some start great cold and some are real trouble.I worked at a new car dealership, some would start, some never would, but every engine has a combination, gotta find yours.john

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valhallareject

12-28-2004 13:48:03




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
Well call me crazy.....and understand, down here in central Texas we never have to worry about real cold cranking...but I have an original 6V 2N and a semi-converted 12v 8N (still has 6V not really square but close ignition coil)....and for love nor money can I say one is any better then the other. I wish I could say the 12v started better....cause I sorta used that as a selling point when I asked the boss lady if I could buy it...but the truth exposed....I've spent more "fixin" the botched conversion then I ever have on 6v system repairs. I agree with everyone else....about the only way I can see any advantage to one over the other....is if...some cold dark night....I'm lying in bed...and I hear someone out in the barn trying to crank one of em up to steal it.....I'll know which one they are after by the sound of the starter!! Other then that...to me....its a coin toss!

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Will Dave

12-28-2004 14:50:16




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to valhallareject, 12-28-2004 13:48:03  
You probably can't tell the difference with a botched conversion. With a well done one, on a good tractor you can. It is like a lot of aspects of farming and tractors, there are a lot of variables. I have operated a tractor shop for 27 years, and one thing I have learned for sure is nothing is for sure. I have had customers leave an old 6v Ford outside in all weather and it would start. Others keep a better 6v in a good barn/garage and still had to jump it. I agree with Dell & others, put the old gal in the best shape, if she still wont start,12v usually will help. But if you plan to do a conversion, do it right, avoid resistors and multiple connections. Get advice from competent starter/generator rebuilders, and you will have a good conversion. My tractor acted just like Mels did. We used like that for 30 years and 3 complete rebuilds. It would roll 5 feet and start, but would not go otherwise unless jumped.

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More info Mel

12-28-2004 12:04:04




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
I should have added that the tractor has new plugs,wires points and battery cables. If I jump it with my truck it spins faster and starts right up? I have a lower raditor hose heater should I also install a block heater ??

Thanks again.

Mel



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don t.-9n180179

12-29-2004 02:22:38




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 15:32:02  
Had similar issues w/my N. 90% were electrical. While I went a little overkill, I replaced the wire harness, volt reg, bat cables, ign switch. About 10 days ago at -4F, 3 puffs and she started. This on an engine comp. tested 2 years ago that was well below 90psi.
Good luck....don t. ....



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Will Dave

12-28-2004 17:29:29




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 15:32:02  
Hello Mel, I think probably if you have done the overhaul, tune up, etc and it wont start right,a conversion is for you. There are some tractors that need some extra help. Our family uses our N,s and I want them to start. The key to a good conversion is to tune up your starter, generator, and make sure your wiring is in good order. If you feel your starter is ok, you may use it on a 12v conversion. However, if it has a light starter drive, or is otherwise weak, it may fail. I had my resident starter rebuilder go through mine, and added the more expensive drive. I also had my original generators converted to 12v. On the 2n, I added the 12v coil for the front distributor. On the 8n with side mount dist, I added electronic ignition as well. It seems to help all the tractors that we have installed them on. Some of our customers like alternators, and they work ok too. I converted the generators to keep the original appearance, and to make the job simpler. I also do not use any resistors of any type. To help you decide, ask yourself this, does it run/operate well after you boost it? If it does ok then I would convert. If after boosting it is not ok, then I might look eleswhere. As I said in other posts, ours ran and did well except for starting. And like you have done, ours went through 3 rebuilds, new starters, carbs, dist, batteries, and cables. All done properly 1st by the original owner at the Ford Dealership, and later by Grandad, Dad and last by me. But as soon as you were at the far end of the field, and shut her off, it was roll start her or hike to the house. This is just my opinion, and you may find something works better for you. Will Dave, at your service

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Bob

12-28-2004 16:44:42




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 15:32:02  
Every "N" has a bit of it's own personality, and once you catch on to it's little quirks with choke operation and throttle position for starting, you're well on the way to more reliable starts.

If mine will sit for more than an hour or two, I always shut the fuel off while it's running, and let it run a minute ot two to cool down and burn up SOME of the fuel left in the carburetor. This prevents the flooding scenario that can occur if the carburetor input needle and seat aren't quite up to the task of controlling gas flow, and keeping the carburetor air horn (and beyond) from filling with gasoline. My carburetor works well, and it would be unlikely that it would overflow and flood, but why take the chance?

When I'm ready to use it again, I turn the gas back on, and get the engine cranking over at about 1/4TH throttle, and give the choke a quick tug-and-release. Experience with your machine will tell you if that is enough choke, or at what temperature another quick "tug" or two may be needed, or if a different throttle setting works better!

I think "flooding", especially in cold weather, when the gas is not as volatile, and someone cranks the engine with the choke out too long is one of the biggest reasons people get frustrated with these old machines. It does not take long to get quite a quantity of gas in the air horn and air intake tube by holding the choke on too long!

This leads to wet sparkplugs, making starting difficult, if not impossible without replacing the sparkplugs, or at least removing them and burning them clean with a propane torch.

If you have a good battery, starting system, and ignition system, these old girls will start VERY reliably, once you've tuned in to their "vibes" a bit!

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Wesley Leitch

12-28-2004 12:24:07




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to More info Mel, 12-28-2004 12:04:04  
If you need more umphf, get an 8 volt battery.
Wes



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Bruce (VA)

12-28-2004 12:42:24




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Wesley Leitch, 12-28-2004 12:24:07  
I wouldn't. You really can't get the N v/r to put out the 9 or 10v needed to charge the battery, and the extra 2v's will burn up the points. So what you get is an under charged battery burning up points. Fix the problem, not the symptom.



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Will Dave

12-28-2004 10:33:38




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
I have a 2n and an 8n both converted to 12 volts. I would not want to go back to 6 volts for love or money. The 2n my grandfather bough almost new, and never did start, or do well on 6v. I converted it to 12v, reusing my starter, generator, and installed a 12v coil that needed no resistor. The old gal will start year round, and runs better too. The 8n has worked pretty much the same way. Easier to find batteries, lights, etc in our area as well.

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me too--bj/8n/mt

12-28-2004 09:03:14




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
Let me join in too. Scroll down to "HARD STARTING" on this page for one n series that twelve volt didn't fix. At the very least fix what is wrong on six volts before you start messing with the machine because it is a good bet that you will still need to fix that after you throw a couple of hundred bucks at it to convert it.

Your mileage may vary



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Dell (WA)

12-28-2004 08:29:31




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
Mel..... ...ah yes, a $150 bandaide for a $5 cure. REPLACE your crusty battery cables with 'arry-chested 'muricum made one-ought (1/0) thick as yer thumb battery cables.

Otherwize, the sponsers of this great N-Board sells a full "kit" for 12v conversion..... ....Dell



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Bob

12-28-2004 08:26:39




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 Re: 12 volt convertion help in reply to Mel, 12-28-2004 08:09:12  
With a good battery and starter, CLEAN connections, and HEAVY battery cables, it SHOULD turn over reasonably well. Do you have winter oil in the engine, and do you depress the clutch pedal so the starter doesn't have to stir up the heavy gear oil?

I you do decide to convert it to 12 Volts, there's a wealth of info in the archives on this site, and I believe they sell 12 Volt stuff through this site, also. Look under "Marketplace" in the upper LH corner of the page.

Do you have the older-style front-mount distributor, or the later side-mount? This is important because there are a couple of options in either case to deal with the coil.

It's important to do some research, and understand what you're doing, because, even with a "kit", the instructions may be incomplete or a bit ambiguous.

If you're "handy", and take time to understand the conversion wiring diagrams, you can convert it yourself without buying a kit, with a $10.00 to $25.00 "recycled" alternator, a home-made bracket, some type of "idiot light" or diode, and a replacement coil and/or an additional resistor.

Here's a link to wiring diagrams:

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