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Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wrong?

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don t.-9n180179

12-26-2003 06:27:09




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I removed left axle & trumpet, diffy, right axle, to fix oil soaked brakes and leaky lift pins. Also to install sure seals. I had a few questions/problems that were resolved by the archives or current posts.

Cleaned things up well. Started to put it all back together. Did nothing to axle bearings beside grease prior to S-Seal install. Brake springs were the worst part of that job. Installed right axle w/o shims to line up diffy. Right axle rotates freely in both directions. Installed left trumpet w/no problems. Installed left axle w/o shims. Left axle rotates freely in both directions. I was expecting the right side to rotate when the left was moved. No rotation what so ever. Did notice axle end play on both sides. I re-read FO-4, para. 131, in part it says axle end play=bearings loose. Removed both axles. I've added 6 metal shims (2 of pn. 4229d, 3 of pn. 4229e, 1 pn. 4229f) to the right axle. Still have end play, no more shims, and the left side sitting on the floor. I consider the only stupid question is the one you don't ask, but I not sure what to ask. I would "think"...
...I need more shims, but how many is to many? I've already noticed that the stud does not protrude outside the nut.
...there could be other issues/problems that inexperienced eyes have not detected, or have noticed but failed to make the connection. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry for the lenght, just wanted to be informative. Regards. .....don t. .....

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Henry

12-26-2003 20:43:22




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 Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wrong? in reply to don t.-9n180179, 12-26-2003 06:27:09  
I had the same problem wheels never would turn the same direction it had no shims in it. I found about one sixteenth inch end play in both axels so I heeted the shrink rings and tapped them down until they made contact [bottomed out] no more end play wheels still turn opposit I put it together and it worked fine I plowed my driveway three times But I heard a prononced pop in the right wheel two, three times now I see a small amount of oil on the right backing plate. I did remove two gaskets The Ford dealer did not mention gaskets I am not saying they should not be there? I am wondering if someone put the shrink rings on to cold and streched them so now they don't hold.

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don t.-9n180179...more ?'

12-27-2003 03:56:52




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 Re: Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wr in reply to Henry, 12-26-2003 20:43:22  
Henry...thank you. Of course it prompts more inexperienced questions (grin).

"about one sixteenth inch end play"...after I completly seated the S-Seal, I have no noticable end play. I can actually rock the tractor on the stands while checking for end play. Big difference before and after.

"I did remove two gaskets"...Right now on mine, I have removed all shims/gaskets. No end play, but other side still unresponsive.

"someone put the shrink rings on to cold and streched them"....how can you tell? Is there a measurement for this? At this point, I would think there are only 3 possibilities left,
1 - bearings are loose/bad
2 - One/Both collars have moved
3 - Its just old and wore, should have just replaced all, then installed S-Seals. What else could it be??? Thanks...don t. ...

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Henry

12-27-2003 06:22:21




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 Re: Re: Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doin in reply to don t.-9n180179...more ?', 12-27-2003 03:56:52  
I just heeted them up and tapped them down to see if they would move and they did,I know of no measurments
1 If your bearings turn free smooth and quit they should be ok
2 Srink fits hold very well,if they could slip or not I don't know there is a .006 space required between the axels and if you can not make the wheels turn the same way you realy don't know. suppose they clear by .0005 the wheels turn opposit but you realy have no clearance and when it worms up the axles get a little longer something gives.

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Scott

12-26-2003 17:17:11




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 Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wrong? in reply to don t.-9n180179, 12-26-2003 06:27:09  
You need to get the stud through far enough to tighten the axle to the end of the trumpet, Did you only install one 2N4035 left trumpet to rear housing gasket? After serial# 9N174650 on 2N's uses 1, before serial# 9N174651 uses 2.



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don t.-9n180179..Update

12-26-2003 12:22:11




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 Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wrong? in reply to don t.-9n180179, 12-26-2003 06:27:09  
Thank you Dan & Dell. The sure seals on both sides DID go in farther. It did eliminate the end play, completly.

The left still sits there while rotating the right, and vise-a-versa. Is it still too loose? Whats next? Thanks much....don t. ...



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Dell (WA)

12-26-2003 14:06:44




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 Re: Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wr in reply to don t.-9n180179..Update, 12-26-2003 12:22:11  
Don..... ..ya said you had problems gettin the brakes springs installed, this beggs the question: Are your brakeshoes too tight and causing dragg which will prevent the axle test from rotating thru to otherside..... ..Dell



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don t. - 9n180179

12-26-2003 15:11:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doin in reply to Dell (WA), 12-26-2003 14:06:44  
The brake springs were more of a pain than I remembered. Took me a few tries w/the big one.

"brakeshoes too tight"..thought of that too, but no. The adjuster works well, shoes not touching drum. Good news on another front tho, found part of my electrical problem. Thanks...don t. ...



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Don C

12-26-2003 08:09:47




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 Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wrong? in reply to don t.-9n180179, 12-26-2003 06:27:09  
Did you have the tranny in Neutral. You could be spinning the tranny unless your supposed to?



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don t. - 9n180179

12-26-2003 09:07:52




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 Re: Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wr in reply to Don C, 12-26-2003 08:09:47  
Not that simple (wishing it was). I did check, its in neutral. Thanks....don t. ....



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Dan

12-26-2003 07:01:46




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 Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wrong? in reply to don t.-9n180179, 12-26-2003 06:27:09  
When you are checking for proper load, you should be turning both wheels the same direction with no shims in either side. Then, you start adding shims just until when you turn one side of the wheel, the other side turns the opposite direction. Since you got no rotation what so ever with no shims in either side, I would guess something you installed (sure seals?) is keeping your axle from sliding all the way into the differential. I would not put additional shims in until you can discover why you cannot get both wheels to turn the same direction without any shims installed.

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don t. - 9n180179

12-26-2003 09:04:53




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 Re: Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wr in reply to Dan, 12-26-2003 07:01:46  
Lemme see if I understand...
..no shims = axles should touch
..axles touching = opposite rotates in same direction
..since mine don't touch w/o shims, I have other problems I need to locate. I do notice, while checking end play, when I push in, it does "clunk". This would indicate the axles aren't touching. Right??? Sure seal was installed where the outer most flange was level w/the hub, maybe a bit lower. Should it have gone on farther? What else??? Looking that the MPC and FO-4, all should be held in place by the shrink collar. Could this have moved? Maybe bearings that I thought were ok, are actually to loose? Thanks for your time.

Regards, .....don t. .....

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best answer . . . Dell (W

12-26-2003 08:56:03




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 Re: Re: Adjusting axle bearings-what am I doing wr in reply to Dan, 12-26-2003 07:01:46  
Don..... ...Dan has it right, your SureSeals are preventing the axles ends from meeting in the center of the diffy. (which causes both wheels to rotate in the same direction) Then you shim the axle out enuff so the natural differential process causes the axles to rotate in opposite directions. And at the same time, the shimming also sets wheelbearing endplay. Remember, too loose is better than too tight, but just right is best of all.

And while the original shims were metal, most of the time, the extra shims available from dealer are paper cardboard. I don't know of a "max" shim stack specification, but I don't think you'd want to add/subtract more than one shim from the original stack make-up. Unless you changed your outer wheelbearing and race, you should be very close..... ...Dell

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