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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum
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12 Volt conversion Again

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Sean

07-29-2003 12:54:46




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I was on her a few weeks ago and you guys were very helpfull. My tractor 8n side mount, ran great for a few minuts then shorted the harness and burnt it (my bad, connected to posts on amp meeter and they were not insulated). I made a new one with the burnt one as a guide. all looks good but the electronic egnition that I just put in wont spark. They said it was tested and is good but I would like to know if that Is Not the problem what would it likely be. Im guessing the coil may have burnt out with the dead short but I dont know what to do to test it. any sugestions? Keep in mind I did replace the Electrnic egnition and the coil was new befor the grounding. And I was told here that I didnt need a resister but it looks like the egnition diagram wants one. So I dont know what to do here.

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Dell (WA)

07-29-2003 22:01:51




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 Re: 12 Volt conversion Again in reply to Sean, 07-29-2003 12:54:46  
Sean..... ..Get rid of that d*mn electronic ignition module and send it back to the factory for checkout and evaluation. Get yer 12 volt converted sidemount ignition workin' WITHOUT THE MODULE, and AFTER you get it working right, then and only then, install the electronic ignition module. (if it comes back from factory).

Thats the great thing about newbies converting to 12 volts, they think if "X" circuit is good, and hey....this here "Y" circuit looks good too, iff'n I wire my 12 volt conversion useing both them circuits, then my 12 volt "Z" circuit will be twice as good..... ..wrong....

If you use the special 12 volt coil supplied by your electronic ignition module manufacturer, and IF the manufacturer sez use a resistor, then do as he sez.

If you use the OEM 6 volt roundcan ignition coil, you MUST USE a 12 to 6 volt converting resistor, ALWAYS, understand?

If you use a REAL 12 volt ignition coil, they NEVER NEED A RESISTOR.....EVER, understand? and if'n yer parts person tells you to use a resistor with his choice of 12 volt coils, tell'em to look again. You want a real 12 volt coil that never uses a resistor.

And shorting out your wiring harness should have NO EFFECT on your ignition coil.....BUT..... making your OWN WIRING HARNESS is eazy way to keep your coil from making sparkies.

Theres is NO EAZY SHADETREE mechanics test for bad ignition coil except by REPLACEMENT. You might find a real automotive ignition repair shop that has the necessary equipment to test your $15 coil for $50 min service charge. If you think your coil is bad, buy a new one.

Since you shorted out your ammeter and burned out your wiring harness, have you considered the fact that you might have mucked up your 12 volt alternator? Tak'er in for free check-up at autoparts store..... ....respectfully, Dell, a 12 volt advocate that knows 8 different ways to convert to 12 volts and get it right the first time

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JerryU

07-30-2003 04:39:38




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 Re: Re: 12 Volt conversion Again in reply to Dell (WA), 07-29-2003 22:01:51  
Actually there is a shade tree way of checking coils. We do it all the time on snowmobiles and bikes. It involves obviously the coil, an old coil wire, an old spark plug, an old condensor, a battery and about three pieces of wire. Granted, it will not tell you what the spark looks like under compression, but by manually sparking it you can tell if the coil has any fire in it or not.

FWIW,

JU

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Dell (WA)

07-30-2003 06:00:31




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 Re: Re: Re: 12 Volt conversion Again in reply to JerryU, 07-30-2003 04:39:38  
Jerry..... ...As I said..... ."Theres is NO EAZY SHADETREE mechanics test for bad ignition coil except by REPLACEMENT"

Your snowmobile & motorcycle sparkie tester works and is eazy for EXPERIENCED mechanic to rig up such a tester. I wouldn't suggest such to the electrically challenged NOVICE mechanic that Sean obviously is..... ....respectfully, Dell, who knows other ways to test ignition coils too

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Sean

07-30-2003 07:23:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 Volt conversion Again in reply to Dell (WA), 07-30-2003 06:00:31  
Ok Thanks Dell I will check the alt. This all started with My Father Buying a ingnition mod because he replaced the points and condenser every 3 hours or run time. The distributer has been rebuilt and I have replaced them my self a few times. It just seemed to be condenser going bad all the time. He figured if we get electronic mod it would fix the problem. The coil came from the 12 volt convertion and was a Real 12 volt. So I did not use the resister. The tractor fired right up and ran great. I used the same gauge wire in the new harness I made and unless their is something in it that I missed it should be exact in length and if anything I used heavier wire for the a few. So how dose this sound. I will get a New points and condenser and try that. But if I do what about the coil? Do I use the standard points and condenser? Do I get a new 12 volt coil or 6 volt. I would like to take this XYZ circut and make this as simple as can be. Is thier a resister in the circut anyware if I have points and 12 volt coil. I know I know I should have come here first but, give me time and I will lern my lesson. another thing, Is their a type of points to buy that are diferent than the ones I get from the Ford Dealer?

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Jim WI

07-30-2003 11:08:28




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 Volt conversion Again in reply to Sean, 07-30-2003 07:23:42  
"he replaced the points and condenser every 3 hours of run time"

This seems a key clue. What did the points look like when you replaced them? Did you try just setting the point gap again? Did the rubbing block look worn (maybe you're putting the lube on the wrong part)? How sure are you that the coil is really a 12V coil? When the ignition fails, what are the symptoms?

Dell's right about getting the OEM ignition system working first before changing to an electronic system. Otherwise you've greatly increased the number of potential problems.

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Sean

07-30-2003 12:55:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 Volt conversion Again in reply to Jim WI, 07-30-2003 11:08:28  
Ok well their was no symtoms at all it would run great and just quit. Open the cap check points and no amount of ware on the rubbing block I put the lube around the lobes. The contacts would have a slight burn to perfectly normal look to them. you could check the gap and it would still be good .024 if I am recalling the right thing. Keep in mind that I havent done it in a wile cause I had just given up on trying to put in new points and condenser all the time. the advance worked fine. and the tractor ran good. but not as good as it did with the electronic egnition. I have a suspicion that I may have burnt out a diode in the alt since the instructions warn against pos ground or inproper wirering. I.E. Dead shorting the system. Im paying for it now boy. But I will not give up. This is going to run long enough to drive it into my pond. I could roll it but its now a matter of princeapal.

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Jim WI

07-31-2003 10:58:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 Volt conversion Aga in reply to Sean, 07-30-2003 12:55:42  
Did the points problems start AFTER the 12V conversion? If this were a front mount distributor, I'd be sure that you now have a bad coil because you don't have a resistor in the circuit. However, you've a side mount distributor -- the posts I've seen about this seem to indicate that the side mount 12V coils (round) are much beefier than the front mount's coils (square). 'Course, it could still be the coil. ;^)

How long does it run before stopping?

Will it restart after you let it cool off?

Try jumping around the ignition switch -- does the tractor then run fine? If so, it's the switch (they've been known to fail this way).

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