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Ford 9N, 2N & 8N Discussion Forum

12 volt system vs. 6 volt

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Clint

07-21-2003 17:27:45

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Can anyone tell me if its worth the expense to go to a 12 volt system or just tune up my 6 volt system? The conversion kit comes with everything I'll need to do the job to upgrade to 12 volt, however its a little pricey.

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Steve W

07-22-2003 11:53:30

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

half the stuff on this board is botched 12V conversions. While I am sure I could do one right, when I see a tractor for sale, and it has been converted, unless the stock stuff is still available, I won't even consider it.

Your milage may vary

Steve

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Rob

07-22-2003 10:43:57

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

Clint on 7/21,

I vote for 6 volt D.C. Replace the 6 volt battery every 2-3 years, and clean the starter commutator, segments, and carbon brushes with a good spray degreaser or fine emery cloth (with starter ignition switched "off"). The copper starter commutator (slip metal band off while starter motor still mounted) should be mirror clean and the commutator segments (air gaps or slots) should be opened with a toothpick or fine non-metallic pick. A properly charged 6 volt battery with clean 6 volt starter brushes, commutator, and segments "really spins". Good luck! Attorney Rob.

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chuck

07-22-2003 11:28:52

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Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Rob, 07-22-2003 10:43:57

See! With 12 volts while Rob is cleaning connections, points, and starter commutators and replacing batteries I am out enjoying the tractor doing stuff with it, not to it.

chuck
436244

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Vic

07-22-2003 20:52:20

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Re: Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to chuck, 07-22-2003 11:28:52

Are you saying that with your 12 volt system you don't need clean electrical connections, don't replace points, don't need to replace batteries, and don't need to keep your starter commutator clean? That's a pretty amazing tractor you've got there!

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chuck

07-23-2003 05:29:15

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Vic, 07-22-2003 20:52:20

Vic, I don't have points-Genesee electronic module that requires no maintenance or adjustment. My current battery has the June 1997 hole punched out and is giving no signs of problems. And in 10 years I have never cleaned a connection or starter commutator or put new spark plugs in it. It is a working tractor that gets 25-50 proof-o-meter hours of use per year. It starts by just touching the starter button cold or hot-no grinding, I doubt it makes more than a full revolution to start. I don't consider it amazing, I consider it up-to-date.

chuck
436244

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DD-Mi-8N

07-22-2003 10:06:05

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

If you are restoring to original condition you must leave it 6v. But I use the heck out of my 8N and it sure is nice to have the 12v for sprayers, lights, pumps and the like. I also put the Genesee electronic ignition in and love it to pieces. My conversion to 12v (minus the electronic ignition) was $18 and that was buying the parts all from the junkyard! I plan on repainting the tractor someday but right now she is earning her keep by plowing and hoggin'!!

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jonboy

07-23-2003 10:52:53

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Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to DD-Mi-8N, 07-22-2003 10:06:05

Sprayers? You must be reading my mind. 12v pumps are readily available. 55 amp Hitachi alternator has lots of reserve. $40 for a rebuild. Industry #14255. Also, none of that lamp/resistor stuff that is apparently needed for the delco conversions. Uses original generator bracket, unmodified.

ND starter was 20 bucks .. less than the oil filter hanger (PH8A). Did require a little 'recreational machining' but that was part of the fun.

The sprayers .. two 2.8gpm RV pumps to shoot down in front of the fresno blade for dust control and to help with compaction, AND, to put some weight towards the front end of this puppy.

The pumps draw 7 amps each. A 12 volt generator would have little left at 20 amps output.

jonboy

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chuck

07-22-2003 07:36:39

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

Clint, There is nothing wrong with the old 6v system if everything is in good shape. After 50 years it can likely be seriously degraded. It is older technology and requires periodic maintenance. I vote for the 12v system. New technology components can reduce maintenance time (points) and an altenator will keep a good quality battery alive for 5-7 years. Generator systems don't keep the battery charged up as well and this generally shortens battery life. I converted my 51 about 10 years and put a Genesee electronic ignition module in place of the points and 12v coil so there are no resistors in the system. I haven't looked back. It lets me use the tractor instead of maintaining it. I don't have to pay attention for the degradation of engine performance as the points wear out and need cleaning adjustment. The lights are brighter. And it's the easiest thing to position next to all the other 12v vehicles/boats/equipment that periodically need a jump start.

chuck
436244

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Vic

07-22-2003 20:56:35

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Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to chuck , 07-22-2003 07:36:39

If you're referring to electronic ignition to replace points, it's available in both 6 volt and 12 volt. So eliminating points is possible with both systems and is an advantage of neither (or both).

In five plus years, I've replaced one battery on my 6 volt system. That's it. By contrast, I see a ton of posts by people with problems with their 12-volt conversions.

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souNdguy

07-22-2003 04:53:21

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

I'll throw in my .02 as well.

My 8n is still 6v, and my NAA is 12v converted. Both start easilly. The 12v battery does give you more umph to spin the revs up, and time to get it started.. but if you need excessive time to start your tractor, it would be better to hit it with a few bucks worth of tune up parts.

Liek the others say.. these tractors were 6v oem... and they do work if maintained.

If you have a tractor that has a shot battery,genny, and shot regulator, etc.. then you are on the middle ground area, because at that point, it may be cheaper to repair it as a 12v system than set the 6v system back up. Also, a determining factor would bee if you need to run a 12v implimint.. etc.

My suggestion is to stay away from the 8v batteries... my 8n had one in it and it was the source of lots of problems.. namely charging. Even my rebuilt genny and new regulator didn't keep the 8v battery topped off enough for a robust start like the 6v battery.

Also.. whatever battery you buy.. do get a heavy duty, or industrial/ag use battery... these tractors will beat a car battery to death.

I got an inexpensive 6v ag battery at TSC for something like 39 bucks... no problems so far after a year of use.

Good luck.

Soundguy

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David - OR

07-21-2003 21:40:27

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

I started wth an abandoned tractor that had no battery. The ammeter needle was broken off. The state of the generator and voltage regulator were unknown. The wiring was frayed and corroded.

I could not bring myself to buy a brand new 6 volt battery only to have it be the "wrong" technology right out of the box.

(I routinely had to use the hand crank on the 6 volt 2N of my youth, and the reluctant, slow, rrrr-RRRR-rrrrr rr of system that can't quite get with the program brought many memories...).

A properly maintained, good condition 6 volt system works fine provided nothing else is wrong. If you want the tractor to be original, by all means stick with 6 volts. But for me, a $16.00 junkyard alternator, $5.00 worth of parts from the electronics supply store, a $12.00 voltmeter for the dash, a $15.00 pulley, a $75.00 12 volt commercial tractor battery, and a pleasant morning spent making a mount with metal working tools got me a reliable and trouble-free 12 volt system that will NEVER have any trouble starting the tractor -- hot, cold, flooded, whatever. That energetic cranking is like having an entirely different tractor, at least at startup....

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Vic

07-21-2003 20:48:45

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

Here's one more vote for 6 volt. The exception? Maybe if you need accessories like a 12-volt sprayer pump or something like that. But, like others, I've had zero problems keeping the battery charged, even with two headlights and an implement light, and the tractor has always started instantly even in subzero weather.

If you do convert to 12 volts for some reason, make sure you safely store EVERYTHING you removed--6 volt generator, hardware, etc. That way you (or a subsequent owner) can restore the tractor to 6 volt operation if desired. With the increased collectability of these machines, the day may come that you kick yourself for changing the stock configuration.

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Jim Cox

07-21-2003 20:05:44

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

if you need a new generator, and you don't want to spend $80 on a quality rebuild, the New Holland kit #87406907 for $194 (blows Tisco away) is still a big jump, but a simple one. Harness, alternator, brackets, the works, but only if you need electrical help anyway. I made my 1954 ford tudor 12V back in 1992 so I could put a radio in it, and haven't done it yet. Was it really necessary to go to 12V?? Nope.

Have an Nteresting week
Jim Cox
Starter rebuilder guy

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PloughNman

07-21-2003 20:05:16

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

Hey Clint-
I gotta go with the others on this one. I keep my 6-volt system " clean, bright, and tight " and never have problems starting even in sub-zero weather. 12 volts are for burning brighter lights, 8-tracks, sprayers, etc. as stated by the others, but I ain't got no problem with mine either and I plow until dark and after. Get your genny rebuilt first-about $75.00. Next, a good 6-volt AG battery if yours is older than 3 years. Check all wire connections and replace the whole harness if it's old and cracked. Coil, regulator, distributor, and fan belt need attention also. New plugs will help too. Just simple basic preventive maintenance will make itr last a long time too. It's your tractor and you can convert to 6, 8, or 12 if'N ya'll want.

Tim

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Rob N Va

07-21-2003 19:23:14

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

My six volt system works just fine. 12 volt conversions are totally unnecessary (in my opinion) unless you need to run 12 volt accessories. Even the 6-volt headlights are bright enough for most applications....my 2 cents----- Rob

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Buckeye Fan

07-21-2003 19:16:17

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

Clint, as bg said, most people change to 12 volt because their tractor is hard to start which indicates that there is something wrong with the fuel or ignition system. Fix what you got, a good tuned 6 volt will start on the second or third crank in cold or hot weather. Typically low compression is the culprit for not starting with a 6 volt system. A conversion will buy some time but eventually the engine will need attention. If it won't start on 6 volts, there is a definate problem. Buckeye

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Jim WI

07-22-2003 11:15:39

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Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Buckeye Fan, 07-21-2003 19:16:17

I agree completely with this. My dad had a 2N with the OEM 6V system in good condition (he sold it a year ago). I've a 2N with a 12V conversion. Neither seemed to have any starting advantage -- when it was way below zero, they started equally well.

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07-21-2003 18:22:49

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

a well-maintained 6-volt system will do exactly what it's supposed to do-start the tractor and charge the battery. The only reason for switching to 12-volt that makes any sense to me is to be able to run 12-volt accessories, like radios, sprayer pumps, etc.

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DallasGa

07-21-2003 18:05:55

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Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Clint, 07-21-2003 17:27:45

Ha Clint,The Kit comes with everything but the battery and the 12V light blubs which make it even pricier.If you have a good 6V gen. and battery I'd stick with'em. Thats the two parts that cost the most,so they would drive my decision.

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Garth

07-21-2003 20:01:28

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Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to DallasGa, 07-21-2003 18:05:55

Yeah BUT...!
I have used an 8 volt battery with my six volt system for three years with absolutely NO PROBLEMS.
You have to set it up very carefully...the regulator and the generator...it will give an extra volt...perhaps even more...do not go for the full 8 volts or you might overstress the system. Now, running 7 (or 7 and 1/2 volts) I get the extra starting punch I love.
Ahhhhh hh! Compromising can be soooo good!

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unfortunately . . . Dell

07-21-2003 20:19:01

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Re: Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to Garth, 07-21-2003 20:01:28

Garth..... ...UNFORTUNATELY, most shadetree mechanics can't even change a 6 volt battery leave alone finesse (that means carefully adjust) a 6 volt regulator to semi-charge an 8 volt battery to 7.5 volts.

Remember the 6 volt mantra: "keep'em clean, bright, and tight". And don't be fer usin' enny of them thar wimpy ferrin made battery cables. Gettcha some 'arrie chested 'muricun made 1/0 (thick as yer thumb) battery cables.

I am NOT AN 8 volt ADVOCATE. And while it works for you, it usually causes the electrically challenged more problems than 8 volts can cure..... ....respectfully, Dell

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Garth

07-21-2003 20:44:49

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Re: Re: Re: Re: 12 volt system vs. 6 volt in reply to unfortunately . . . Dell , 07-21-2003 20:19:01

I admit you have to be very careful and know what you are doing...but properly done it is wonderful..and I keep 'em clean, shiny, and bright and I use proper battery grease (dilectric) to ensure things work well.

8 volt is great...but best know what you are doing...use meters and set the stuff up off the tractor...get a good repair man to set it up for you!

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