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Massey Harris & Massey Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
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Diagnosis please

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Bret4207

08-30-2007 17:21:34




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Well the MF 175 arrived. It appears to be a 1973 model. Steerings a little loose, not bad really. Starts well, runs strong, brakes are good. Sheetmetal is good, it"s been repainted. Rears are great tires, fronts ok. Tach/hour meter ionop and sitting at 6K plus. Engine didn"t smoke or leak much other than by the fuel pump amd one spot by an exhaust manifold bolt. Now for the bad news- The PTO doesn"t stop with the clutch, or at least it won"t stop my empty round baler. Of more concern are the hydraulics. They throb as the 3 point raises and you have to rev the engine to get a round bale off the ground. It won"t hold in position either, but that may be an operator error as I"m not familiar with the MF system. The remotes will open my round baler but won"t lock it as it closes. It"s also very, very slow opening. Much slower than my 800 Ford, which has lousy hydraulics, or Cockshutt 30. There"s no way I could use this as is.

I figure it needs a hydraulic pump rebuild, at least and some adjustment on the PTO. Any other ideas and a ballpark price for repair would be appreciated. It"s a 8/2 tranny, no Multipower.

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Jim Giddens

09-09-2007 09:08:16




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
Dear 135 fan: My 135 has milky hydraulic fluid, even after a change of fluid and brief use on new fluid. What is the significance of the milky look? The 3-point shudders under load. Thanks, Jim



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DavidP, South Wales

09-02-2007 10:47:36




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
Hi,
Thanks for the mention 135 Fan.
Bret,
We need to know a bit more about the tractor before being able to offer anything more concrete.
If the hour meter has failed it is likely to be a broken gearbox on the front of the engine timing cover. A small item but quite expensive. I have repaired them with glue in the past. Re PTO. Check which type you have. If you have an Independant the lever will only have an 'On and Off' position. If it is a live type you will have 3 positions, 'Engine, Neutral and Ground'. If 'live', it might be adjustment. As mentioned check the location of the clutch linkage to ensure that it has not been engaged. Is there any sign of a second stage in the pedal travel? If it is Independant and your baler continues to turn that would suggest more than the brake pad.
The pad is there to prevent the PTO shaft turning mainly with oil drag. A repair to the IPTO unit would entail splitting the tractor between the rear centre casing and gearbox. The hydraulic problem is likely to be a major leak in the system. Oil is pumped to the lift cylinder and in normal cases when the desired position is reached the system moves into neutral. Because the system is being told it needs more oil it raises the linkage and goes to neutral. As the linkage falls it is told to replace the oil and so the cycle goes on. This could be the pump or seals on the stack pipe between the pump and hydraulic cover. If you have remotes they can be operated by the auxilliary pump or Ferguson pump. If you have pipes coming from the left-hand side cover then you will have an auxilliary pump and I suspect that this pump has failed. It is not possible to rebuild as the aluminium body normally suffers internal damage. If you remotes are operated from the Ferguson pump, hoses coming from the front of the hydraulic cover, make sure that the selector valve which seperates internal and external hydraulics is positioned correctly.
Difficult to put a price on the repair but if a tractor was brought to me with these problems I would anticipate a final bill (looking on the black side) of around £1000.....$2000?
Please come back if I can help further.
DavidP, South Wales

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Tom from Buckeye Lake

09-01-2007 05:47:29




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
Bret, I am a newbe to MF but may offer some information. My 150 has IPTO, that is the pto is driven thru a hyd clutch pack and it has a seperate small gear pump to supply pressure to the clutch and hyd brake. I really don't think the brake is designed to stop equipment. It is just a small cyl and a very small brake pad applied to a ring on the outside of the driven clutch pack. I plan to use an over running clutch on the pto. I think the brake is just there to hook up equipment, not stop it.

BTW: my brake piston was stuck, reached thru the right side cover and used a long screw driver to pry the piston loose. I have added two quarts of ATF (high detergent) oil to the system to try and clean up internal stuff.

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Dick Underwood

08-31-2007 21:16:11




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
On my 175 the clutch arm hooked to the shaft coming from the bell housing has two holes, when the linkage pin is in the lower hole the PTO clutch is not released by stepping on the clutch petal. Move the linkage to the upper hole if you want control of the PTO clutch.
On the MF controls to the right of the seat, make sure the inner one is set to high or constant pumping.



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Bret4207

08-31-2007 06:48:16




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
I know I should have the manuals Tom, but I'm trying to figure out if I should buy this or how much it'll cost to fix and approach the dealer with that info.

BTW- On the PTO- I'm now told some models had a live PTO that didn't disconnect with the clutch. IOW- youhave to throw the lever to shut it off. Is that right?



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Bob N.Y.

08-31-2007 18:00:16




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-31-2007 06:48:16  
Let's get some terms straight. A Massey 175 could have either "Live PTO" (2-stage clutch) or "Independent PTO". If it is "Live", you are dealing with a dry clutch in the bell housing. If it is "Independent" it has a hydraulic clutch pac in the rear end housing.



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TomTex

08-31-2007 06:05:48




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
First off, before you start tearing into it and replacing this and that, get your manuals. MF dealer will have all 3 of them: Operator Manual, Repair Manual, and Parts Manual. Get the real MF manuals, the other brands are only fit for door stops. The Repair Manual will give you the step by step, and the Parts Manual will give the detailed exploded views to insure correct reassembly. Best money you ever spent. After you get it all fixed, the MF-175 should be a giant step up from Ford-800 as to hydrolics. Tom

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David, Surrey UK

08-31-2007 03:50:25




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  

Aaron Ford said: Missus got hot when she found it apart on the kitchen table. Still married so it could not have been too bad!


Been through something similar myself. It's a good pre-marital test if you're thinking of getting hitched. third party image

David

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Bret4207

08-31-2007 02:57:45




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
No milky color to hyd fluid. From what I can find here and other on-line sources this has the single hyd pump. I assume it's also located in the tranny case and requires the split. Any online scans of manuals available? I can't even find and I&T locally.



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135 Fan

08-30-2007 22:15:07




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
Not sure what type of hydraulic setup you have. Check fluid level and for milky colour. If it uses the 3 pt. pump for aux. hydraulics it has to be in constant pumping with the draft control all the way back as well. I'd post some more detailed info on here to see what else could cause the problems before taking the hydraulic pump out. Someone like Big Dean or David in Wales would be very helpful. Dave

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Aaron Ford

08-30-2007 17:38:29




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 Re: Diagnosis please in reply to Bret4207, 08-30-2007 17:21:34  
Sounds like a heck of a tractor. It does sound like it needs a Hyd Pump rebuild. It also sounds like the brakes on the Independent PTO need adjusted or replaced. Neither are rocket science. No idea on the pricing, as I typically get my parts here and do it myself. Hyd Pump was easy. Missus got hot when she found it apart on the kitchen table. Still married so it could not have been too bad!

Aaron

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