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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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4020 - What if engine quits?

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Jon (IN)

05-10-2005 10:58:46




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I am new to JD 4020's but got to thinking about this. I was using my 4020D this weekend and ran it out of fuel(That was my fault, it won't happen again).... Anyways, I was climbing a decent hill when it quit running. Went to step on the brakes, and they weren't there. Powershift isn't gonna hold it. I got her turned sideways on the hill, but got to thinking, with everything hydraulic, is there anyway to stop it or hold it if the engine quits? Luckily, I wasn't pulling anything. This is my first diesel tractor with hydraulic brakes and powershift. Anyone have a similar experience?

Jon (IN)

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msb

05-10-2005 15:34:51




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to Jon (IN), 05-10-2005 10:58:46  
Deere designed a fail safe feature.You.will have steering but it takes real manpower to turn the wheel with the engne off.And the brakes will stop you if they are pumped up.Deere knew the liability they faced if the steering and brakes totally failed should an engine quit running.The reason Deere added the accumulater in 1969 was to increase the safety factor as explained in the 1969 Deere service schools.

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jdemaris

05-10-2005 20:04:54




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 4020 - I Jumped off! in reply to msb, 05-10-2005 15:34:51  
I went to many of those Deere service schools from the late 60s to the late 80s - mostly in Syracuse, NY - much of it was hogwash being taught by people who probably never sat on a tractor seat. Some of the same Deere tech-guys that taught at service schools were also our "troubleshoooters" that came around when we had problems we couldn't figure out. They usually made things worse - put a wrench in their hands and they were totally lost. In regard to the brakes and steering in tractors e.g. 2520, 3020, 4020 - Deere DID get hit with a couple of law suits - thusly came the parking brake addition to later tractors. The so-called back-up feature in the steering and brakes usually did not work at all once the tractor had some hours on it. The accumulators rarely held their charge, and even when they did only gave a couple of of seconds of emergency use. We had one customer get killed on his 4020, due to the loss of steering and brakes coming down a hill. I was in a bad accident with a 3020, same sort of situation. I had a wagon hitched to the back, coming down a very steep hill, the SynchroRange trans. popped out of gear (as it often did), the engine stalled, tractor started moving REAL fast, absolutely NO steering or brakes - and I mean NOTHING. I climbed up on to the fender and jumped off at a high rate of speed. Hit the ground sideways, broke both legs (my right foot came off and got reattached at the hospital), and I broke my neck in two places. It wasn't a great day. Add insult to injury, I knew better, I've was a Deere mechanic most of my life.

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WTW

05-10-2005 12:12:21




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to Jon (IN), 05-10-2005 10:58:46  
Jon, If your 4020 is a 1969 or later model it is equipped with a nitrogen charged brake accumulator that will supply your brake valve with pressure oil in an event where the engine dies resulting in loss of hydraulics. It will supply enough oil pressure to stop and hold the tractor until you put it into park. If your tractor is a 69 and later model and you do not have about twelve "power" brake applications with the engine off, remove accumulator have it resealed and recharged. If your tractor is older than 1969, you have manual brakes only when engine is off dependent on a good tight hydraulic / brake system. On a 35 plus year old tractor a prayer might be your best result in this situation. DW

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Jon (IN)

05-10-2005 12:18:22




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to WTW, 05-10-2005 12:12:21  
Mine is a 66 model... sounds like I will just keep the fuel tank topped off :-) I am not too concerned about it, but it just got me curious.



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ET

05-10-2005 11:44:06




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to Jon (IN), 05-10-2005 10:58:46  
If the brakes are properly bled so there is no air in them they will hold manualy. The problem is things get fixed in a hurry and the brakes work fine under power without bleeding so its offten overlooked.



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Mike M

05-10-2005 11:27:47




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to Jon (IN), 05-10-2005 10:58:46  
Your brakes should go back to manual operation. I doubt you will have much luck holding back a load though. You may not even have enough time to bend over and kiss your a$$ goodbye. Just get everything it top shape and hope for the best.



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Gerald J.

05-10-2005 11:11:58




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to Jon (IN), 05-10-2005 10:58:46  
There are leaks in your hydraulics. The steering valve and the brake controls resort to being cylinders to run the steering and brakes. They take a whole heap more effort and stroke but are supposed to work the steering and the brakes without hydraulic power. Likely your brakes need bleeding to get the air out and you need to be sure there's plenty of hydraulic oil in the system.

With hydraulic pressure the steering and the brakes are operating as control valves which take no effort at all.

Gerald J.

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Jon (IN)

05-10-2005 11:41:54




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to Gerald J., 05-10-2005 11:11:58  
So, with the engine off, I should have a stiff brake pedal? Currently I don't, and the second I fire it up, the brakes "energize" with full pressure. I have not tried pumping the brakes with the engine off. Would that tell me anything?



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Gerald J.

05-10-2005 12:28:27




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 Re: 4020 - What if engine quits? in reply to Jon (IN), 05-10-2005 11:41:54  
Not as stiff with power off as with power on, and probably with a longer stroke. So far I've not run into that problem of loosing power on a steep slope with my 4020 gas. I learned long ago to not step on the brakes when cranking though. Hydraulic pressure lifts the pedals with GUSTO about the second turn of the crankshaft. At first I pushed both clutch (syncrorange) and brakes while starting to keep from running over stuff. But the pedal kick cured me of that. Now I depend on the parking gear to hold the tractor while cranking. It did feel like there were brakes before the pedal hit the deck though.

Gerald J.

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