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John Deere Tractors Discussion Forum
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4020 Battery

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jddb

03-24-2005 07:04:54




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I have a JD 68 model 4020, converted to a 12 volt system. 2 12 volts in parallel NOT series.
The batteries currently installed are this:

Tractor Supply
Traveller Brand
Right side battery is labeled Part # F-3ET
Left side battery is labeled Part # F-3EE

From the Exide.com website:
F-3ET has a cold cranking amp of 460
F-3EE has a cold cranking amp of 370

Question: Are these batteries adequate for the tractor described? If not, what would you recommend and where to buy. Preverably a Deere dealership or Tractor Supply. Thanks a bunch.

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buickanddeere

03-24-2005 14:33:41




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 07:04:54  
As previously stated. Miss matched batteries will reudce cranking power and service life. Mother Deere's 12V units in parrallel with beefy new cables looks like the fastest, easiest and best performing compromise. A new and properly built battery box and proper group 31 or larger batteries being the best solution.



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Gerald J.

03-24-2005 08:57:30




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 07:04:54  
The 3EE is the little brother of the 3ET and they are the only 12 volt batteries that will fit the 4020 battery boxes. At the least you should have matching batteries, both for size and for age.

The long thin battery case causes long interconnect bars inside the battery (made of high resistance lead, not copper) which limits the cold cranking amps.

I recall seeing a similar long thin battery in some Packard cars.

The limited usage of these batteries in recent years tends to make them orphans of the battery industry.

If the 12 volt conversion included an alternator, the batteries should be fully charged in ten or 15 minutes of running. If it uses a Deere generator it takes hours to recharge the batteries for each start. The 24 volt generator was rated at only 10 amps. The 12 volt generator at 20 amps.

My gas 4020 has an alternator and an ammeter so I can tell when it charges and when its done. Both have proven to be worthwhile additions. A volt meter isn't nearly as handy a battery condition indicator as the ammeter.

The battery boxes often loose their hold downs and so the batteries can bounce up and short out momentarily to the foot plate which makes them take a lot longer to reach full charge.

On my 4020 gas, I made a new step that holds a more modern battery in place of the left step. Then that extended step has a lower step out in front of the rear wheel that is down 16". I was having trouble getting to that first step 29" from the ground.

The more modern battery that I used has side terminals and being very close to the starter has short and LARGE diameter battery cables (Walmart cables aren't fat enough to crank a diesel well) that I found at NAPA. The battery came from Walmart for maybe $40 in round numbers and has twice the CCA rating of the best long slim battery. I don't yet know its life. With the alternator charging and cranking a gas engine with a newly rebuilt starter (the little auxiliary relay stuck and kept the starter spinning and hooked to the engine and threw the windings out of the armature slots) I'm on the third or fourth year and haven't yet had to charge the battery and I've let it set all winter some winters, or run it at 10 degree temperatures after sitting a couple months.

As you can guess by now, I'm no fan of the long slim battery. Even at Central Tractor they used to cost about $90, and with the original 20 amp generator it took another each year or using the battery charger every day that I wanted to use the tractor. It could have been the fault of the lack of battery hold downs or a bad voltage regulator on the generator. When the alternator cost only half again the price of a replacement regulator the swap decision was simple.

There are some 6 volt long slim batteries, that could be wired in series. We can debate which is better for a week and come to no conclusion. I think the 6 volt batteries in series could supply a bit more cranking power than a pair of 12 volt batteries in parallel but only if the makers filled the slightly greater available space in the 6 volt with battery plates. Unfortunately the outside dimensions of a battery can be a very misleading indicator of the actual active plate area in each cell.

The best of batteries won't serve well if not fully charged, and won't crank well if the battery cables are wimpy. Go for 0 gauge battery cables, 00 if long.

Gerald J.

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jddb

03-24-2005 12:20:20




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to Gerald J., 03-24-2005 08:57:30  
Thanks for the info. If I understand you correctly, you made a new battery box that a normal vehicle 12 volt battery would fit in and then mounted it in place of the box that came with the tractor?



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Gerald J.

03-24-2005 17:18:09




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 12:20:20  
No, I made a new left step that has room for the car battery and the step outboard of the battery. Then I added a second step 16" down. Both steps are very open but in front of the wheel where sticking down doesn't hit crop when cultivating. It bolts with the same bolts as the original step, then has a diagonal brace to a bolt next to the starter. I took out a bell housing bolt (3/4-16) and put in a longer one threaded full length and my diagonal brace hangs on that extension.

There's not room for a wider battery handily under the floor pan and it would be in the way of clutch adjustments too. Mine has shorter battery cables and isn't in the way of crops or tractor access.

I do have a drawing of it, but I don't have a picture and the drawing isn't in a form convenient to post to a web page.

Gerald J.

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thurlow

03-24-2005 09:10:43




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to Gerald J., 03-24-2005 08:57:30  
Great information, Gerald; I think the 3EH 6V batteries will also fit his boxes..... ....if he decides he'd rather have 2 6V in series..... .



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Gary in TX

03-24-2005 08:08:54




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 07:04:54  
First thing I would do is run, don't walk away from them, go to ma deere and get some good batteries. I put some TSC batteries on my 4430 and they are junk! Put a pair of new Deere batteries and she is doing great. I like Tractor Supply for alot of stuff but won't by a battery there again, its not worth the aggrivation!



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jddb

03-24-2005 08:14:06




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to Gary in TX, 03-24-2005 08:08:54  
How much did EACH battery cost? Thanks.



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thurlow

03-24-2005 07:57:36




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 07:04:54  
I'm no battery expert (and some of these other guys are), but I do have a lot of experience dealing with these old 4020s. The 3ETs are quite adequate when hooked in series for the original 24V system. In fact, they came from the factory with either them or the 3EEs. Don't know why they wouldn't work in parallel for 12V system. I suspect you have one (or two) weak batteries, some bad cables or connections or a dragging starter.

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John T

03-24-2005 07:40:10




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 07:04:54  
jdd, I tend to agree with Bob there in general. I dont have any specs, but in my opinion if thats a Diesel, and especially if you live in a colder climate, and since its been converted down to a 12 volt system (not as good on starting as a good 24 volt system anyway) I would install the absolute highest rated CCA or Amp/hr batteries (identical ones) that will physically fit into the compartments. My guess is that would be more like the 700 to 1000 CCA versus the lighter less than 500 CCA units. My Ol friend Gerald J, whose good on the 4020's, may hopefully weight in here also.

John T

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jddb

03-24-2005 07:47:07




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to John T, 03-24-2005 07:40:10  
It is a diesel and I'm in Texas. Weather has only been in the 70's(day) and 50's(night). One problem is we aren't driving it much so we aren't giving it a chance to charge, but I just assumed it should crank better than what it is doing. We might drive it for 30 minutes one day and 2 days later it will barely turn over. Thanks.



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Bob

03-24-2005 07:19:07




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 07:04:54  
If this is a diesel, as it almost certainly is, since you state it has 2 batteries, the recommendation from Deere parts is:

2- #TY21737 batteries... 830 cold cranking amps, each.

(For gasoline or LP gas, 1- #TY21733, 430 cold cranking amps.)

Sounds like you're a bit underpowered in the battery departement!



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jddb

03-24-2005 08:55:40




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to Bob, 03-24-2005 07:19:07  
Thanks for your help. I looked up TY21737 and, unless I'm mistaken, it's a 6volt. I need a 12. Part number TY24341 is a 12, but only 620 cranking amps. Think that will be okay? I will probably go to a Deere dealership, but I was just wondering who else sells these besides TSC and Deere. Thanks again.



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Glen in TX

03-24-2005 16:58:51




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 08:55:40  
The TY24341 is what I found too at 620 CCA. The Interstate site shows their equivalent at only 575 CCA for about the same price. Go with some 1/0 or 2/0 cables with the fine strand copper wire like welding cable. Those will work better.



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thurlow

03-24-2005 10:26:33




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 08:55:40  
Local parts house carries Interstate???? 3ET at $59.00 each (not sure what the 3EH cost, but they're higher); they typically last 3-5 years for me; I always replace them in pairs, although I may save the better of the two and pair it with a like age/condition battery on another tractor. These are "using" tractors who've got to earn their way.



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jddb

03-24-2005 10:46:08




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to thurlow, 03-24-2005 10:26:33  
Probably a dumb question, but will the Interstate 3ET have the same dimensions as the Deere 3ET? And when you say local parts store, does that me like O'reilys Auto Parts? Thanks.



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thurlow

03-24-2005 11:19:21




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 10:46:08  
I don't know that I believe there are any dumb questions, although the look my wife (of 39 years) sometimes gives me makes me wonder..... All like sized/numbered/series batteries should have the same physical dimensions; I am in a rural area and though there are O'Reilly's, AutoZone, etc, there are still 4 locally owned and operated stores. One NAPA, one Carquest and the other 2, I don't know their national affiliation; 2 of these locally owned both carry Interstate. I've got 4 of these old 4020s....three 24V and one later model 12V; can't tell a bit of difference in the way they crank, although the 24V seem to have a little more "oomph".....

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Bob

03-24-2005 10:14:08




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 Re: 4020 Battery in reply to jddb, 03-24-2005 08:55:40  
JDDB,

You're absolutely correct!

I had looked it up for the newer 12 Volt 4020's, forgetting they used 2-6 Volt batteries in SERIES, NOT 2-12 Volt batteries in PARALLEL.

The 12 Volt battery now recommended is a TY21733, @620 CCA's. They are $106.97 each at my favorite Green Store!



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