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3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase

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Kirk Grau

11-21-2006 09:55:02




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Posted about this a few weeks ago.

Was advised to change Thermostart which was necessary since it was not working anyway. Also changed a seal in the injection pump right behind the end cover (this has the rotary pump). This seems to have reduced the problem, but am still seeing oil levels rising as it sits. Have taken to turning off the fuel at the pet-cock near the tank to minimize effects.

There is another seal in the pump located somewhere closer to the engine side. The exploded parts diagrams are sometimes deceptive as to where things really are located. I have a service manual as well, but it does not really describe the seal either. Anybody been inside one of these pumps to know how hard it is to get to the seal? I have the part ordered and it has arrived, but I need some confidence building before I take the pump off of the tractor. Is this a DIY project? My skills are pretty fair, but I know my limits too.

Thanks,

Kirk

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Pete Hulkovich

11-22-2006 21:52:26




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 09:55:02  
Hi,
I had same trouble and after taking the tractor
to another dealership which happened to be a J D
one It was an injector causing all the problems
after a year of back and forth and 50 gallons of
oil and diesel mix compliments of our Ford Imp
dealer i have enough mix to treat all the fence
posts in the pasture. Just a suggestion, Pete



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Pete Hulkovich

11-22-2006 21:38:03




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 09:55:02  
Hi, i'm no mechanic or expert but I had my 861
diesel overhauled by a beginer at a reputable
Ford dealership here in colorado as this kid proc
eeded to muddle with the tractor which went in for a clutch replacement he twisted the distributer rack replaced that still leaking diesel what I found out later, when replacing the
injectors he screwed up one and it was shooting
pure diesel into the crankcase no matter what, I found out after 50 gallons of oil diesel mix if you aren't sure do as I did, I asked a John Deere
dealer shop forman can you find why i have diesel
in my crankcase for 500 hundred? sure he said after all not counting the clutch it cost me 3000
Just a suggestion. Pete

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J Schwiebert

11-22-2006 13:59:04




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 09:55:02  
Does your Ford have a lift pump? If so I would check it first.



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Kirk Grau

11-21-2006 12:27:29




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 09:55:02  
Thanks for the help so far.

Smells like diesel in the crankcase so that is where I have been focused. I suppose the possibility exists that the oil always smells a little like diesel in the crankcase.

There are 2 seals noted on the exploded parts diagram. I "cherry picked" the easy one, but am still having problems. Thus the continued follow-up. What should a pump rebuild cost (approx.)?

The power steering fluid theory does have some possibilities though. I regularly have to top off the PS fluid and whatever is in the crankcase is relatively clear.

Coolant level never moves so I have not considered that as a possibility, but will continue to monitor.

Thanks,

Kirk

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RodInNS

11-21-2006 14:21:32




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 12:27:29  
A pump rebuild for something minor will probably run anywhere between 500-800, depending on where you're at and where you send it.
For now I would focus on where the power steering fluid is going. If you don't see any external leaks, then you can pretty much bet that it's leaking past the pump seal. Just check real well for external leaks. Finding none, then pull the pump, take it apart, and then inspect the pump for wear. I would make a point of keeping the engine oil fresh until I knew where the extra was coming from. The possibility exists that it is fuel, and you don't want that in the crankcase. However, the hydraulic oil from the steering system isn't going to cause the damage that the fuel would. I would figure out where the extra oil in the crankcase is coming from before I spent anymore money on fixing the thing... HTH.

Rod

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Kirk Grau

11-21-2006 17:42:26




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to RodInNS, 11-21-2006 14:21:32  
Thanks Rod,

So far the fixes have not cost much besides my time. Thermostart was about $25, but it needed to be replaced anyway. The seal I fixed was $10. While I was messing around with things I added a block heater so I should have cold starts going pretty well this year. The second seal is ~$23, I just am not sure how to get to it. Don't have any real clear description yet.

Regarding the Power Steering - I haven't seen any obvious external leaks. I might attack this if it is not too difficult. I just don't think the quantity of oil I keep draining matches the amount of PS fluid added. The first time I drained it the "oil" level was above the dipstick. Just flowed out the top. When I drained it I took most of 4 gallons out. Since then I monitor oil level much more frequently.

I am keeping the oil pretty refreshed for now. The tractor is used around our horse/hobby acreage. Probably only used about 2-3 hours a week.

Kirk

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RodInNS

11-21-2006 18:09:06




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 17:42:26  
Kirk,

If you're draining off that kind of volume, then it must be fuel. That volume certainly didn't come from the steering system unless you allowed a lot to accumulate. I can't tell you the specifics of how to tackle the injection pump. If it was mine, then I might tackle it... but I don't have a clear picture of it in my head to lead you through it. One suggestion though, if you wish to try it yourself: go up to the Tractor Talk forum and ask the question. You might direct it at jdemaris. He's worked on more of those pumps that I've ever laid eyes on. Certainly know the answer if he's around. Your pump is a CAV model DPA. Include that in you post.... HTH.

Rod

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gerard

11-21-2006 11:34:33




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 09:55:02  
Does this model have a fuel lift pump? Would be most likely cause of fuel in crankcase if it has.



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RodInNS

11-21-2006 11:20:20




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 09:55:02  
Personally, I don't work on pumps too much, other than turning the odd one up.... I'm not sure if that particular pump will have 2 seal in it back to back or just one seal to keep fuel in. I'd guess that it's just one seal, and you changed that...
The other causes of rising oil level are as Jerry stated; water/coolant accumulating in the base, or, hopefully a bad seal in the power steering pump. Those seals are not hard to change and are not expensive. That's if it's just a bad seal. Most often the seal leaks for a reason... which is because the pump is bad and needs to be replaced. So... you can double check your work on the injection pump if you wish. Otherwise, if the pump is stil leaking, then I'd send it off to have it done and guarnteed. Then I'd know that's ruled out. Beyond that, find the sure source of the rising oil level. HTH.

Rod

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Jerry/MT

11-21-2006 10:00:14




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 Re: 3600 Diesel - Fuel in crankcase in reply to Kirk Grau, 11-21-2006 09:55:02  
Are you sure that the rise in oil level is due to fuel? It could be water, which sits in the bottom of the crankcase and might not show up on the dipstick. The usual cause of oil in the fuel is an injector pump seal failure and you said you fixed that. What's the level of coolant in your radiator?



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