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Non-detergent oil

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Ernie O

05-12-2008 18:35:43

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I have a 400 Farmall that has had non-detergent oil run in it most of it"s life as far as I know. I would like to switch it over to detergent oil and I was curious if any of you have ever done this and if I do what should I look out for?
Thanks!
Ernie Bob

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Ron-MO

05-13-2008 06:05:08

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to Ernie O, 05-12-2008 18:35:43

I have a C that ran with non-detergent up until around 8 years ago. I know because it belonged to my late father and he always used it "because that is what is recommended for it". He also ran non-detergent in another tractor he had. After his passing I started gradually switching the two over and now use detergent oils in them exclusively, with no ill effects. Others have reported that you may suffer sludge plugging up orifices, etc, but I have actually never witnessed or heard of actual cases of engine damage caused by simply switching over to detergent oils. The C I have was ran on non-detergent 30 weight oil from 1950 until 2000 or 50 years, with infrequent changes so the crankcase was probably as dirty as any. By the way, I use Super Tech oil from Wal Mart in everything I own including my diesel tractor with no problems there either. I figure that oil is probably far superior to anything they had in 1950 so it should be fine today.

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CNKS

05-13-2008 05:03:55

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to Ernie O, 05-12-2008 18:35:43

What makes you think it has had non-detergent -- previous owner tell you? Detergent was in use when the 460 was built.

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Ernie O

05-13-2008 14:48:37

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to CNKS, 05-13-2008 05:03:55

CNKS, I got this gas 400 from my Father and he used non-detergent because that's what the previous owner used. My Father always bought used and would use the same oil that the previous owner used.
Thanks! Ernie Bob

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CNKS

05-13-2008 05:05:15

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to CNKS, 05-13-2008 05:03:55

Misread 400, I think it was available in 1955 also.

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edward_m

05-12-2008 21:44:23

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to Ernie O, 05-12-2008 18:35:43

Agree with Allan...all detergent oil does is a better job of suspending contaminants than non-detergent, which helps keep the engine cleaner inside with less sludge build up.

If you want the 'champaign' of oil, use detergent oil rated for diesel engines...its just a higher quality oil, can be used in anything.

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dhermesc

05-13-2008 05:51:09

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to edward_m, 05-12-2008 21:44:23

"If you want the 'champaign' of oil, use detergent oil rated for diesel engines...its just a higher quality oil, can be used in anything."

Actually that is far from accurate. Diesel rated oils usually have much higher sulfated ash content then gasoline engine oils have.

Link

Mystic JT8 and the IH No 1 branded "diesel" oils have a sufated ash content of 1.5-1.7% - a formula that works best in compression engines.

Link

According to Cat the ideal deisel oil will have a sulfated ash content ranging from 1.3% to 1.5%. For gas engines the lower the sulfated ash content the better (that's why IH advertised their gas engine oil as "Low Ash"). As the list shows synthetics have no ash content and the "super premium" conventional oils have and ash content of less than 1%.

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Owen Aaland

05-13-2008 17:20:27

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to dhermesc, 05-13-2008 05:51:09

dhermesc said: (quoted from post at 05:51:09 05/13/08) "If you want the 'champaign' of oil, use detergent oil rated for diesel engines...its just a higher quality oil, can be used in anything."

Actually that is far from accurate. Diesel rated oils usually have much higher sulfated ash content then gasoline engine oils have.
Link

Mystic JT8 and the IH No 1 branded "diesel" oils have a sufated ash content of 1.5-1.7% - a formula that works best in compression engines.
Link

According to Cat the ideal deisel oil will have a sulfated ash content ranging from 1.3% to 1.5%. For gas engines the lower the sulfated ash content the better (that's why IH advertised their gas engine oil as "Low Ash"). As the list shows synthetics have no ash content and the "super premium" conventional oils have and ash content of less than 1%.

The high ash content of diesel oils was there to neutralize the sulfur that is in the fuel. When the sulfur gets into the crankcase from blow by when the fuel is burned it mixes with water/condensation to form sulfuric acid that attacks the bearings. With the advent of ultra low sulfur diesel should be less need for the ash content. International ran into problems with the high ash content when used in the last series of gas engines because the ash would be turned to carbon deposits on the exhaust valve stems causing them to stick in the guide when they got hot. The slightly open valve would quickly burn out. The low ash content for gas engines came about as a solution to this problems. The older engines as used in the M,s do not suffer from this problem.

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Allan In NE

05-12-2008 18:48:43

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to Ernie O, 05-12-2008 18:35:43

Oil choice is a totally human thing.

The old tractor is inert, it's a machine, doesn't give a fig one way 'er another and will run on chicken fat if ya can pour it in. :>)

Allan

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Janicholson

05-12-2008 18:47:21

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Re: Non-detergent oil in reply to Ernie O, 05-12-2008 18:35:43

buy an oil pan gasket. Remove pan (keep track of the bolts, end bolts are longer)
if ut looks spiffy and clean, clean the pan and put a batch of sacrificial cheep oil.
run it for 5 hours or so, then change to good oil and filter. If sludged, clean and do the same to the valve area with kero, and the pan off. JimN

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