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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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1953 Super- W4

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Dusty Jones

05-11-2008 03:53:18




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Well where to start....?
I was gifted a 1953 Super-W4 Serial# 284D.
It had been stored for around 6 years with the engine head removed but still set on top. Apparently
the old girl was having some mechanical issues and showing her age. The aged gentleman who owned the tractor went to do its "GASP" yearly oil change, and found about 2 gallons of gas in the oil pan, no wonder with yearly oil changes.... So he changed it out and hoped for the best after running for about 5 or 6 hours the W4 began to lose power , by the time "Ken" got it back to the shed she had to be pushed up a 10' grade into the garage..... Not Good.

He began a little exploratory investigating and stopped at the point of having the head off as it became a little to involved for him to tinker with. His wife passed away shortly after and Ken very shortly after that from a broken heart....
He loved his wife e measurably and without Marry had no will to continue on in this life so passed to the next to be with his love once again.....

But he left me his tractor ..... .

So Ive got a great tractor that needs to have its heart rebuilt. I'm an ASE certified technician so Ive got mechanical skills to spare . Just not the working knowledge of the little nuances of these great old machines. Now if this were a Chevy v8 and a customer had come in with oil in the gas id tell them you more then likely have blown a piston ring or two or posably cracked a piston or god forbid cracked a cylinder wall , pretty much the only way to get gas from the top end to the bottom end is to break something between the two halves. Now comes the nuances of these old tractors is there a point somewhere on the old engines that would allow gas to travel to the bottom end other then by way of the piston bore? Im not seeing any from visual inspection but my x-ray vision went down yesterday so I could be missing something.

And before I start a rebuild and not fix the original offending problem and waste cash I by no means have to waste I would truly appreciate a second opionion. As muhc as I would like to purchase a complete rebuild for the c-164 I simply do not have the means to afford the $600 plus for an entire kit.
But I know im probably going to have to save up for the next year or so to buy a complete kit. At the very least new gaskets rings and bearings if I'm lucky..... Ive got a better chance of being struck by lightning and hitting the lotto and coming home from the hospital to publishers clearing house on my door step .
But I can dream cant I.....
So what do you enlightened gentle folk think?????
any second gas avenue to the lower end....

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ihc49

05-13-2008 21:30:23




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
yes fuel can get into the pan as janicholson says on chevys, thats very true. but on this w4 that is not quite possible. your lower carb drain would have to be plugged solid. i am sure the gas would leak out past the throttle shaft bushings, or find some other place to leak. the intake would have to be filled solid with gas and then leak into the head and run out any open intake valves into the cyls. then it leaks past piston into pan. BUT for the intake to fully fill up for this to happen, chances are next to nil.i may be a fool but not a stupid one, i am stating a true fact here.i know this cant happen on a w4 tractor.

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Janicholson

05-13-2008 18:23:52




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
Yes a filled tank, a floay valve leaking, and about three hours. The fuel can actually get from the tank, to the carb, from the carb to the manifold, and from there ninto the cylinders, where it just runs past the rings like solvent. after a while, it would be tough to start, but if pull started, it would go!!

A chevy can fill with fuel from a bad diaphram in the fuel pump, Ive seen them blow the entire sheetmetal off the engine (pan, and valve covers) from the explosion. Take issues with fools, not those who care. JimN

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ihc49

05-12-2008 08:12:00




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
dusty you started this 2 gal. thing. we try and give the best answers to questions we read. this is not possible so its a humour thing.we will get the myth busters to try this one!the joke started in your first sentence with serial #284, the #s start at 501!we reply to what we read!you put yourself in your place.if it sounds silly its silly.



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Dusty Jones

05-14-2008 03:29:50




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to ihc49, 05-12-2008 08:12:00  
My apologies ..... IHC49-- I was in the wrong and thats not nice... Lost a good neighbor friend skidding trees with his 9N few years back just that way..
Im trully not yanking your chain . My decal on the left side of the tractor says Model-S.....W4
serial# 284D. Wouldn't the production run start at Zero and go to 501 for the first year and then start 502 and go up from there for the second year. I need to take a pic maybe im missing something. It took me some time to figure out what this thing was ...
All the tags and decals had a few layers of paint on them. I didn't find them until I took the pressure washer to the tractor and pealed of a few layers of barn red paint took me some time of searching pictures on line to begin to identify and then I found the stickers....
...
Its just that I plan on rebuilding this tractor to a to a shinny red parade driver..... At some point

Is there a way to post pictures to this site??? Or do I have to post elsewhere and set an autoload link?? Never mind I found the link..... Duhhh upload photo
Ill put up a picture or two...
Once I get to work..
Thanx for all the replies guys...
And again my apologies for being a prick....

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Dusty Jones

05-12-2008 03:41:41




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
He said it smelled like raw gas and was clear like gas . And yes it seams strange to have that much gas in the oil I know but this is what he told me.
So there are no breather passages or anything that feed back to the oil pan from the fuel system?
Was kinda what I was after.... Nope no fuel pump to blow a diafram on and fill her up that way....
Thanx Charlie and Gleenster



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mkirsch

05-12-2008 06:50:13




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-12-2008 03:41:41  
It's an updraft carburetor. The gas/air mix has to move upwards a few inches to the intake manifold to get into the cylinder.
There is absolutely no way for that quantity of gas to flow from the tank to the crankcase through the fuel system without involving cartoon physics, or one-in-a-million circumstances:

Normally if the float was sticking on the carburetor and gas was pouring through, it would start to run out through the air cleaner hose or a drain in the carburetor. Theoretically, if the tank were full, the drain plugged, and the air cleaner hose sealed, the gas could fill the air cleaner and intake manifold. However, when he tried to start it, he should've gotten a gasoline shower because the intake manifold and air cleaner would be full of gas too! I would think that he'd mention getting soaked from head to toe with gas when he went to start the tractor.

How would you get that much gas in the crankcase without something being obviously wrong? I don't know. It shouldn't be possible. The tractor would have to have been running poorly for quite some time under heavy use to pump that much gas vapor up and over the side of the engine. THAT is why people are skeptical.

Frankly, I think he drained 2 gallons TOTAL out of the crankcase, which isn't much more than what a C169 engine holds normally. It smelled like gas because the engine had some blowby. Maybe there was some raw gas in it, but not 2 gallons.

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Dusty Jones

05-12-2008 03:30:27




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
Ha Ha I guess..... . Yep spent the time to type the post because I was bored.....
Sorry I wasnt there to catch the Gas that came out of the lower end to get an exact measure of the amount..... My bad for being three states away when the oil change was done....
The two gallon guess was his not mine. Guy who owned this tractor used it every day for many years and hours. To say the least he was a bit stressed when gas came out with the oil....
Bad news allways looks worse dont ya know....
And a set of blown rings letting raw gas flow buy for 50 or 60 hours or more just might collect some gas ya think.... This tractor was used every day from plowing the field to plowing snow skidding tress for fire wood hay runs to the farm a few miles up the road . This was not a weekend warrior tractor, it was a daily driver.... WITH ONCE A YEAR OIL CHANGES....
As for It wont hold that much oil.....
Dumb-azz ..... theres damn near 6 inches of space to the top of the oil pan seam from the top of the oil when its full. Plenty of space to overfill..

So I suppose Ill go elsewhere.....
Damn trolls even in a tractor form....
Detracts greatly from a terrific site....

IHC9 may your ROPS system fail when no ones around to save your sorry azz

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ihc49

05-11-2008 22:14:53




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
you say your the tech. well theres no way that much oil will get in the pan, unless somebody dumps it in there!i think the ducks are farting in shallow water!this must be a joke for a tech. and a mechanically skilled person to ask this silly question.how can you find 2 gal. of gas in the oil? thats more gas than oil it holds. the brgs will be shot. it will be knocking.lots of bull kaka thats what i think!

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Charlie M

05-11-2008 10:10:20




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
Did it really have 2 gallons of gasoline in the oil pan or 2 gallons of antifreeze. You'd have to tow the tractor around for a long time without it firing to get that much gas in the oil. If it were my tractor and didn't have a log of money to spend I'd pull the pistons and check for scoring and check for wear on the bearings. If it looked OK I'd put on new rings, get the valves cleaned up and put it back together. If it looks like a lot of wear then the smart thing to do is rebuild everything.

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glennster

05-11-2008 05:14:18




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 Re: 1953 Super- W4 in reply to Dusty Jones, 05-11-2008 03:53:18  
if it was a w-9, it would prolly be the fuel pump. but the 4 doesnt have one. two gallons of gas is a butt load of fuel in the oil. gotta be getting there tru the carb, or somebody put gas in the oil fill. in either event, i would pull the pistons, check the cylinders for scoring, check the rod and main bearings for wear..



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