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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Engine number and serial number

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Mudshot

04-22-2008 19:36:31




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My farmall A does not have a serial plate. I searched through site and found where someone said the engine number is close to the serial number. My engine number is clearly 251089R1 located under the number 1 spark plug, since 47's started with 182964 and ended with 218627. now what? Any help on this would be greatly appreacated. Is there any other way to tell the year? Paul in Pa




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Jim Becker

04-26-2008 21:05:29




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
7 31 Q on the block makes it sound like the original. I am inclined to believe that some Super A type blocks were produced to check the machining operations and the good ones were tossed into the production line. Seems like that is what you have. Is the tag on your transmission case literally a tag that is screwed on or is it a tag looking feature cast into the case? My final drive housings have cast in date codes that used "47" rather than the letter "Q".

The earliest A and B tractors had the serial number riveted to the shield below the front edge of the platform. On these early tractors, the seat bracket didn't have the holes for mounting the plate. Maybe your seat bracket came from one of the very early tractors. There could be some history like an aftermarket seat that was later replaced with the seat and brackets from another tractor.

My tractor has the original serial plate on the seat bracket.

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Jim Becker

04-25-2008 07:20:45




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
I have a late B with engine stamped the same way yours is, number M217272G. The date code is 8.19.Q and it has the old "D" part number. My serial is 1,373 less, suggesting your serial number was 214,400 or so. That would have been built in August.

Since your block is lower than mine but the later part number, there are 2 explanations.

1) The block was replaced. Replacement short blocks were not stamped. Whoever replaced it stamped the old number into the new block. (Seems unlikely.)

2) The factory was doing pilot construction and verification of the new block. New style blocks that checked out after machining were used for production. I know this was done some, as I have seen parts with the word "SAMPLE" cast into them. (Seems more likely.)

You should be able to verify either way by checking the date codes. If the date code is August '47 or earlier, it is probably original. If it is later, it has to be a replacement.

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Mudshor

04-25-2008 19:39:54




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Jim Becker, 04-25-2008 07:20:45  
Thanks Jim, I have a number 731 Q on the engine on the lower front left side, The other funny thing I found was, a tag screwed into the tranny just in front of the seat bracket that would house the serial plate it reads 8-4-47 I also noticed that there is no holes for the rivits that would hold the serial plate to the bracket, I'm begining to think my tractor never had a plate! the rest of the tractor all numbers end with a D, or DD. Do you have a serial plate?

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Mudshot

04-23-2008 18:29:11




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
Andy and Hugh Thanks you for you for your help! knowing what year this tractor is will be such a help as I start putting it back together and replacing some parts, and even finding a plate number close to the real number. Anyway I'm going to look into the hydraulic's that would be great if I can hook that up, Thanks again. Paul in Pa.



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ScottyHOMEy

04-22-2008 22:25:25




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
Your #1 plug will be the one nearest your radiator, not at the rear. The serial number for the motor will be stamped by hand into a flat-machined spot on the crankcase just below he the #1 plug, probabably obscured by the rod from the throttle control to the governor.



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Mudshot

04-22-2008 21:21:18




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
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Hugh is it possible that my block was for a SA being that it was on of the last 3000 A's made? I have no hydraulics and the engine show no signs of being replaced



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Hugh MacKay

04-23-2008 03:11:03




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 21:21:18  
Mudshot: Now we're getting into what IH was famous for; suposedly changing parts at model change, when in fact they changed when old supply ran out. The block part number for Farmall A was 6342 DH and the first Super A block was 251069 R1. The real difference in the two being the casting 251069 R1 was made for mounting hydraulic pump directly below mag or distributor and driven off the timing gears. Does your engine block have that provission. If so you can mount a live hydraulic pump.

I'm not questioning your opinion that you have an original engine. Is the tractor torque tube flat on top just ahead of battery. That change was made as well, heading into SA production, for mounting the flat bottom touch controll unit.

I have seen evidence in the past that some of the last Farmall A were equipped with live factory hydraulics. The book writers and purests will say no. What I would do next is check the casting codes as Andy suggested, every major casting on the tractor has one, about 1/2" high cast in place digits. That will give you casting dates for each of engine, torque tube, transmission, final drives, etc. If those are all within 6 months of each other, you can be quite certain tractor is original.

I should have noted last evening the Rx or Rxx became new in the mid 1940s.

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Mudshot

04-22-2008 20:43:30




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
All right! Thanks, I was looking under the number 4 spark plug, So here's what I have M 215769 G and under that its stamped FAA. so I know I'm in the right spot. That would make it a 1947 correct? or am I reading it wrong? any idea what the M and G are for?



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gene bender

04-24-2008 04:56:49




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 20:43:30  
Those funny serial numbers with the M prefix and the G behing have been some sort of a mystery my brothers B one of the last built in LOUISVILLE was cast 7-23-47 and delivered to dealer around the 15th of AUGUST. Iwas at IOWA STATE FAIR and the Cs were there I would guess around the 16th or so as they said we dont build any more Bs.



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mkirsch

04-24-2008 06:24:07




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to gene bender, 04-24-2008 04:56:49  
Hey MUDSHOT, compare the casting code on the engine with the casting codes on the rest of the tractor. If they're all close, and have a Q suffix, then the engine is probably original, and the engine serial number is close. It also indicates the tractor is a 1947 model and probably a rare but not particularly valuable "transitional" tractor, a factory mutt :)

Casting codes are cast into the block like that part number in your first picture, and have a format of 11-22-X, two numbers and a letter. Month, day, year.

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Mudshot

04-24-2008 19:06:51




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to mkirsch, 04-24-2008 06:24:07  
A factory mutt, That's funny, not to mention well put! I'll start looking over all the numbers and codes this weekend, I'm sure I'll find some interesting stuff.



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CNKS

04-23-2008 18:06:40




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 20:43:30  
The FAAM are supposed to be on the same line, but yours was not stamped that way. Simply the engine prefix. M is likely motor. Thus Farmall A motor. I don't know what the G is, my book says G was not used as a suffix on that tractor.



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Mudshot

04-23-2008 19:06:52




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to CNKS, 04-23-2008 18:06:40  
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Thanks CNKS M for motor sounds right to me, The G baffles me



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Hugh MacKay

04-22-2008 19:53:12




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
Mudshot: To start with 251089 R1 is not the engine serial number, it is a part number. IN IH any number ending in Rx or Rxx is a part number. Furthermore 251089 R1 is not a part number used at factory as original engine for any of these tractors. It must be a replacement engine, or you've read it wrong.

251069 R1 would be the engine block part number for early Super A. Does it have factory hydraulics? If it is a Super A the engine and tractor serial number do not match. Engine serial numbers are below no. one plug, but on a machined flat surface and the numbers are stamped as opposed to cast in place. The digits are only about 1/4 inch high.

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Andy Motteberg

04-22-2008 19:43:13




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 Re: Engine number and serial number in reply to Mudshot, 04-22-2008 19:36:31  
The number you are looking at, 251089R1, is NOT the serial number, that is the engine block part number. There should be a flat spot on the block that has the serial number stamped in it. You can also get your year by searching the tractor for casting codes, the letter at the end of the code is the year. (Example: 4-22-M would mean April, 22, 1943).

Here is the year for each casting letter:

1939 - I
1940 - J
1941 - K
1942 - L
1943 - M 1944 - N
1945 - O
1946 - P
1947 - Q
1948 - R
1949 - S
1950 - T
1951 - W
1952 - X
1953 - Y
1954 - Z

Hope this helps!

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