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Is smoke normal on new engine?

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Michael price

03-26-2008 14:42:48




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On the 484 I just rebuilt I get alot of white smoke at any RPM. Is this normal or am I burning oil? The center injector is still blowing bubbles but I loosened the nut on the fuel line to that injector and the engine ran a little rough so its running on all 3 cylinders. Is the smoke normal and will go away after a while?




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Owen Aaland

03-27-2008 07:44:45




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
The injector that is blowing bubbles might also be allowing coolant into the cylinder. There is a brass sleeve pressed into the head that seals the coolant from the combustion chamber. It is sealed at the bottom by the injector. If there is dirt under the injector it will keep the injector from applying equal pressure all around the bottom where it seals. The same spots that allow the bubbles to come out may also allow the coolant in. Make sure you get the bubbles repaired before using this engine.

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Michael price

03-26-2008 20:47:28




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
In a parts catolog they had the rebuild kit and said that they were high compression pistons. I figured nobody made a low compression piston anymore.

The injector thats blowing bubbles would have low compression on the cylinder but I should have 2 good cylinders.



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Michael price

03-26-2008 19:49:23




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
It does act like it has low compression, I got the rebuild kit from this web site and they only had one kit for it. I wont worry about it for a while and maybe it will go away like Jim said. When I start it it cranks over for quite a while and then gets quiet like its starting to fire then it starts up. My dads john deere and my 6.5 in my truck fire up real quick. I would think teh starting problem would be low compression but the smoke I have no idea. It doesnt smell like coolant, smell like unburned fuel, maybe oil.

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the tractor vet

03-26-2008 20:19:26




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 19:49:23  
The smole is caused by unburnt fuel and that engine should lite real quick . ANd like i said by my books it depends on S/N break of the engine as to what pistons go into it and there is a high compression option for faster start. As somewhere rattelen around the cob webs i am thinking that they did have a hard start problem with that engine and they made a piston change. And running it will not make this all go away . and i would pull that head and take a depth mic to the valves and see just how deep they set into that head. All you are out is a little time and a head gskt.

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JimB2

03-26-2008 17:53:24




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
Michael, you can check for coolant leaks but my guess is you will not find any. Those German Diesel require a break in period to seat the rings like Janicholson said. My Dad had same experience with 454 D179 about 20 years ago. Required about 10 hrs. of hard work to break the engine in and stop white smoking.

JimB



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the tractor vet

03-26-2008 18:57:35




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to JimB2, 03-26-2008 17:53:24  
I do not agree he has a low compression problem . It wold not be the first time a machine shop messed up. If the valve heads do not stand out to the correct hight then you have a low comperssion problem . And never have i had a problem liten off a diesel like he has and NEVER have i had to use either . Not even a Detroit . On his engine the valves have a resession of .039-.055 on the intake and if it is over .120 ya have a problem and on the exhaust it should be .047-.063 and here again no more then .120 . Also according to my books here depending on engine S/N there are two different pistons and also a option for high compression pistons . SO i stand my ground on the low compression.

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K.B.-826

03-26-2008 16:29:08




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
Run it for several hours, then let it sit overnight. Crack the oil pan drain plug. If it's getting coolant into a cylinder, some of it should find it's way into the oil. After sitting overnight, any little drop of coolant will have settled to the bottom and be easily visible. The other possibilty is low compression. Are you positive you got the correct pistons?



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Allan In NE

03-26-2008 16:25:25




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
Yep,

What TV said. It will blow just a touch of blue to burn off that installation oil.

After just the first minute or two, it ought to clear right up. If it is puffin' white, ya got a problem.

Allan



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the tractor vet

03-26-2008 15:41:02




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
You either have coolant getting into the cumbustion chamber OR ya have low compression . If it is hard starting then low compression. Normal smoke for a fresh engine is blue as of the extra oil used in installing the pistons . Soooo son if you got white smoke ya gots a problem.



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Janicholson

03-26-2008 16:29:01




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to the tractor vet, 03-26-2008 15:41:02  
I agree. He has just got it operational, Checking the coolant for bubbles while cold, Looking at the coolant for combustion products, and looking for coolant in the oil are good starts. I also think (if it is not running poorly) that it should be broken in a bit before analysis. If he runs it for a few hours, it will show issues not found within minutes of starting. JimN



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the tractor vet

03-26-2008 18:39:03




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Janicholson, 03-26-2008 16:29:01  
In all the diesels that i have rebuilt I have never had one that would be hard starting or throw white smoke after starting . I am layen odds that whoever did his head work has the valves ground down into the head and weather you don't think that this will cause it to be hard starting got news for ya . OR his supplier gave him the wrong pistons . Just like on the D361 or the DT 361 if the valves are NOT TO spec. then she will be a hard starter . It is like this on all diesels .

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Allan In NE

03-26-2008 17:11:30




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Janicholson, 03-26-2008 16:29:01  
Yeah But,

For all intents and purposes, an unloaded engine is broke in within the first 10 minutes of operation.

It'll take about 100 hours to get it loosened up, but it sure shouldn't smoke. Any.

Allan



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Steven f/AZ

03-26-2008 15:31:01




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
White smoke has a couple of causes -

1. It may be cold outside and your exhaust is warm enough that it can be seen as white smoke.

2. Condensation (high humidity) burning off inside the cylinders/manifolds, etc.

3. A coolant leak, allowing water into the combustion chamber or manifolds will also cause white smoke.

4. I also believe that improper injector timing on a diesel can result in white smoke (I think if the timing is retarded). Someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

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Janicholson

03-26-2008 15:28:59




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 Re: Is smoke normal on new engine? in reply to Michael price, 03-26-2008 14:42:48  
Yes, it needs to run to break in. Variable loads, up to 3/4 power, and RPM, for the first 4 to 6 hrs, then brief periods of full throttle, and modest loads for 5 more hours, then Change the oil and filters, and work it like in means business. JimN



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