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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts

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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 13:53:46




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Hi , Here's the other two pictures I couldn't get to post the last time . One is a close up of the snap ring groove that may or may not be there . They are pretty well pitted and torn up but I'm going to make it work somehow . The tractor won't be worked hard everyday but it will be worked very hard occasionally such as stump pulling or plowing in the spring and fall . I just need to know how to get the front bearing off . It was suggested earlier that those holes inside are for a punch to fit through to tap the gears and/or bearing off ? I guess I need to buy a very small two jaw puller to remove the pilot race first ? Thanks ! ...Randy


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RR Mech

03-16-2008 19:56:13




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 13:53:46  
Once you get the front brg. off then you just use a punch through those two holes to drive that race out of the back side. Thats why the holes are there.



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D Slater

03-17-2008 07:04:46




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to RR Mech, 03-16-2008 19:56:13  
Thanks for learning me something RR mech on using the holes to remove race. I got used to removing the race without removing bearing on other side and never gave a thought to that. Shore makes a fellow feel stupid overlooking something so simple.



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RR Mech

03-17-2008 20:11:10




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to D Slater, 03-17-2008 07:04:46  
No problem I always like to learn ways to do things easier also. Roy R



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Dave S.

03-16-2008 17:52:16




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 13:53:46  
Randy welding the inside of the bearing race like bob said is the easiest way to take the race out. The end of the other shaft can be fixed fairly easy if it isn"t worn to bad. E-mail me with a PH# and I will call you tomorrow, I will not be home till later tonight. Dave



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D Slater

03-16-2008 14:55:49




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 13:53:46  
In the input shaft it looks like the outside race of bearing is still there and not all the way forward, so the ring grove is just covered by the race. I don"t have a puller to get them out so I carefuly take a die grinder and make the race thin in one or 2 spots,then take a punch and bust it and pull it out. On removing the rear bearing of input shaft, screw the bolt with a few washers under it in the end of shaft tight. Hold the shaft by the gears in two hands with end of shaft down. bring end of shaft down hard on a solid surfice. Only had one bearing out of many that would"nt jar down off shaft in one to eight licks. M&W must have made several small changes to there units over time, but all I messed with (10 plus) had a snap ring in the input shaft. If the race goes in correct I don"t think the ring holds anything most times, because it goes in tight. Once you ask about how thin the back part of M&W shaft is. There only about .063 at rear part and about 2.050 inside with race out. If I remember correct the ring grove is 5/8 inch in from rear of shaft. If you get a new pilot bearing from aftermarket, watch for quality, I learned the hard way by ordering one last month and it was so inferier to original that I would"nt use and they would"nt take it back, $68. Have removed several regular input shafts with race retaining ring missing that caused no problems. Believe your grove may still be there though.

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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 17:39:56




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to D Slater, 03-16-2008 14:55:49  
D , The outer race is still in there . The die grinder idea is a good one . I'll try it . I'll try the slamming it down trick too for the large bearing . I'm not so confident in that one given the looks of the inner race on the shaft . If it doesn't move then what ? So from what you describe this gearset looks right ? I ordered the new pilot bearing from CIH but I think I ordered the bearing that comes without the outer race . There is one part # with two descriptions and the one we thought was right was the cheaper of the two by about half . I'll know on Wednesday . I'm just going to get all my parts from CIH . I checked on a couple of prices from Napa and CIH was about half their price . Thanks ! ...Randy

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D Slater

03-16-2008 18:16:23




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 17:39:56  
From what I can see your input shaft looks normal for a M&W. Kid of rust pited though. I have a bearing puller that closes with 2 bolts thin enough to get behind the input shaft bearing if needed. If your not going to reuse bearing just cut it off. Have removed the one piece pilot bearing from some earlier tractors but have always used the 2 piece myself. IH used several different pilot bearings. On the front of main shaft is a bolt and special washer thats mangeled in picture. A regular good bolt can be put back but the inside corners of hex need rounded just a little to match original. If you can't come up with the special washer I have a used one or two. If you can get the bolt out you should be able to tell by looking at end if part of inside pilot bearing race is still there or wiped out down to shaft.

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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 18:32:31




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to D Slater, 03-16-2008 18:16:23  
Hi D , I have the race off that shaft . The shaft just looks that bad due to the race spinning on it . The bolt is junk but the washer is still good . Getting a good bolt won't be a problem . Thanks for your offers ! Where are you from ? ...Randy



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D Slater

03-16-2008 15:02:01




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to D Slater, 03-16-2008 14:55:49  
On the transmission main shaft I can't tell in picture if any of the inside race is left. I can measure the snout of a shaft with race off if needed. The main shaft is IH, it wasn't changed with M&W set up.



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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 17:54:59




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to D Slater, 03-16-2008 15:02:01  
D , No the inner race came off with the help of a visegrips . The race spun on the shaft leaving the gall marks . I'll test fit the new bearing to see if it is tight enough . I'll probably use a liquid locker on both races to be sure . ...Randy



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Pete_5959

03-16-2008 14:30:31




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 13:53:46  
Randy, This is the same set up on a IH shaft. The outer race if heated can be slid right out. The inner race on the shaft was more of a problem to me. I took to a machine shop and they pulled it off while I waited. $10.00 well spent. There is a snap ring that goes in there prior to the washer and bolt being put back on. They are available from Case/IH.



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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 18:42:49




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Pete_5959, 03-16-2008 14:30:31  
Hi Pete_5959 , I'm have the opposite problem . The inner race came off with some help from a visegrip pliers and a hammer . But getting to the outer race has cuased us some confusion . Things are clearer now and we have a few really good ideas to try . I may be able to salvage this yet . I found a possible donar part but it was half the price ( $200 ) of a good parts tractor ;) . Thanks ...Randy

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Bob

03-16-2008 14:17:24




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 13:53:46  
To remove the outer race, grab a welder and weld INSIDE the out race at 3 or 4 spots, burning the weld in as much as you dare, without risking burning through the race and sticking it to the gear. Allow it to cool to ambient, and the race will shrink, and more or less FALL out of the input shaft/gear.



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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 18:26:41




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Bob, 03-16-2008 14:17:24  
Hi Bob , I'm not at all good with a welder . I'm better with a wire feed but even that not so good . Too impatient with heat . I might try a rosebud torch to dull red/black and let cool or just find/build a small puller that fits . Thanks though ! ...Randy



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Bob

03-16-2008 18:39:20




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 18:26:41  
You DO NOT want to put that much heat in there (from a torch).

Simply WELD at 3 or 4 spots, and it will shrink and fall out, with MUCH less heating of the gear than you'd have with the torch.



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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 19:00:03




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Bob, 03-16-2008 18:39:20  
Hi Bob , Guess I shoud've said that heat would be the very last resort no matter what or what kind . But - I really was thinking of heat to remove the big bearing . Propane heat actually just to warm it up some . The thought of ruining this shaft beyond repair bothers me . If it was a stock type shaft it wouldn't be so bad to experiment on . New stock shafts for a M are less than $200 bucks . The salvage yard wants $200 for a used thirty or forty year old shaft that's been sitting on the shelf for 25 of those years and it cost $ 32 dollars or so when new . So I'm not taking any chances here . ...Randy

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glennster

03-16-2008 14:14:25




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 13:53:46  
looks like you may be able to get a pilot bearing puller in there to get that race out. heres what they look like
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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 18:17:20




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to glennster, 03-16-2008 14:14:25  
Hi glennster , That'd be a nice tool to have but I don't think it would ever pay for itself around my house . I've done a total of two pilot bearing replacements in the last twenty years including this one when it get's done ;) . Before that I did one every couple of years on my 4 wheeler truck because it was always under water . But a truck is different since a little grease , a rod and BFH would take them right out . ...Randy

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oldironman

03-16-2008 14:01:06




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to Randy-IA, 03-16-2008 13:53:46  
There's only one place to buy bearings and thats on ebay. The seller is Bobhill5. You woun't be sorry. We buy all our bearings there. Top of the line bearings and excelint service.



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Randy-IA

03-16-2008 19:05:10




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 Re: Two more pictures of 9-speed shafts in reply to oldironman, 03-16-2008 14:01:06  
Hi oldironman , I'll look at it . Thanks ! ...Randy



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