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OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet

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Red Mist

03-06-2008 16:09:07




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Howdy, boys: I live so far out in the country that I have to drive TOWARD town to find a good place to go hunting. Therefore, as you might expect, all I can get by tele/wire is the old, slow dial-up. It's killing me. For example, it takes about 5 minutes for one of Allan's postings with his photos to download. What I was wondering was, if some of you fellows had any experience with this "Bluesky" or "Hughes.net" satellite internet service. I know it isn't cheap, but Mama Mia!, I am ready to try something different. Is it any good? Does it work well? Thanks in advance for any info.
Viewing the world through a red mist, I am
Sincerely,
mike durhan

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Red Mist

03-08-2008 07:37:32




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
Again, thanks to all for your helpfulness.
mike



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kossuth

03-07-2008 16:42:49




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Re: 460 is a knocking..., 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
Ok, let me give my spill on DSL vs satellite internet. If you live in a super rural area and your telephone cables haven't been updated since the beginning of telephone services, ain't gonna happen. Essentially the old cables had a lead outer jacket with paper insulators around your copper conductors. Phone companies will not usually even try to push DSL down these old lines because they are so prone to a condition known as crosstalk which can not only mess with your old computer modems but it'll cause a world of trouble for a DSL modem. As for your DSL service, the phone company needs to a switching station everything 3 miles in order for DSL to work. What does that mean? If you live more than 3 miles from your closest phone switching station DSL IS NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Note also the farther you live from a switching station the worse your internet is going to be due to line attenuation and noise.
Now onto the subject of satellite internet. Alittle background on me. I was in the military for 8 years doing wireless communications and I worked as a LMR and satellite tech for a government agency for the past two years so heres the deal on satellite. Hughes net isn't bad if you aren't doing alot of heavy downloading but hughes and all other providers advertise their services in a somewhat misleading way I'll explain. Basically the cheap home plans three different things to cheapen things up as much as possible.
First they use a small reflector IE dish. They should use a 1 meter dish or larger IMO but you'll see that most home service providers give you a .75 meter dish. Without getting too technical think of the reflector (round part of the dish that everybody thinks of being the dish) as a concave mirror. A bigger mirror is able to focus more light than a smaller mirror right? RF coming from the satellite in space behaves much like a light. Thus the smaller the reflector the harder it is to see the satellite signal in bad weather. Think of it like this its easy to see someone's brake lights in the middle of good weather but what about a snow storm? Number 2 reason your BUC or Block Up Converter on these home Hughes Net systems is only 1 watt. This is very small particularly when combined with the size of the reflector. Think of the BUC as your transmitter or in this case being we are explaining a flashlight. That light in this case is now your RF energy from your BUC going to the satellite in space. Now a lower power light is more likely to get blanked out by things like snow, fog, rain, and cloud cover isn't it? Most of you have driven in a blinding snow before and not be able to see infront of you?
And the third thing about why the Hughes net service is so slow is because of their bandwidth manager policy IE you use it too much and they throttle back your connection for a given time. Also it is contention based. What that means is that they have X number of users on a given carrier (their satellite dish on their end). Most of the Hughes plans I've seen are close to 500:1. When they give you a bandwidth expectation you'll see in the fine print or maybe right there with the bandwidth the contention rate and speed. Basically what that means is that the speed that they advertise is the speed you will see IF NOBODY ELSE IS ON AT THE TIME. Because that is the speed available to all however many of you are using that same carrier.
If you want a better education on home based satellite services start looking here. www.datastormusers.com and look and ask around. You'll find after talking to some folks that you often get what you pay for. If you do opt to go with a Hughes based high speed I highly recommend using a different dish than they use. www.motosat.com makes internet satellite dishes for RV's and such like that that use Hughes and other services. And the dish reflectors and BUC's are far superior to the cheapo units that Hughes sells directly. If you have an RV that you use alot it might make sense to do this.

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Roger A. NY

03-07-2008 05:43:24




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Re: 460 is a knocking..., 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I have had Wild Blue for about a year now and am quite happy with it. I can't get DSL and my cell phone does not work here. WB goes out occasioally in heavy snow or rain showers and does seem to go out a little sooner than my Dish TV service but it usually is for only a few minutes. I do have the highest speed and it is not cheap but what is? Roger



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Hugh MacKay

03-07-2008 02:43:25




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
Mike: I notice a lot of folks have used opening one of Allan's photos as a measure of how fast their system is. Just letting you know, even though I'm on dialup one of Allan's photos will come up in less that 15 seconds. I've never had one of his take longer. Now, there are folks who post photos here ate YT, that take forever to download, they think bigger is better.

I say that even though my system is much slower than it was 5 years ago. Mine is especially slow between 5 pm and 9 pm everyday. At 5 am one of Allan's photos would open almost instantly. That alone tells me Ma Bell has got to spend some bucks. They call or e mail every month or so wanting to sell me satalite TV and Internet. I tell them,"Make what I have now work perfect, then we'll talk business. I refuse to buy more from anyone, if what I have now doesn't work.

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GA Dave

03-06-2008 20:08:46




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Re: 460 is a knocking..., 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
$60.00 a month????? ? Heck, I'm on $9.95 people pc. com and can see Allens M in a few seconds. BUT!!!! If I want to see a CLEAR picture I have to REFRESH. A PITA. Sometimes minutes. I'm thinking about getting AT&T DSL. Any comments? David.



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GordoSD

03-06-2008 19:24:58




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I am 7 miles from the nearest town ( pop. 580)I am on wireless. They offer three levels of service (speed) Check into that . There should be a wireless provider in your area. I can see Allen's 5000 dollar M inabout 3 seconds. I would pay more to wait a little longer to see it :)

Gordo



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bellyacre

03-06-2008 19:18:29




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
We started with dial-up, not happy at all, switched to Wild Blue, worked pretty good most of the time, but it was $60 a month. Then switched to DSL when it became available just this winter, much better and $30 a month



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Damp;Dservice

03-06-2008 19:10:55




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I have the wild blue through my telephone co-op, 49 bucks a month for blazing fast internet, I wouldnt give it up for anything! I have never had problems with cloudy weather or anything, actually my sat tv will drop but my internet wont. One of allens pic posts takes about 2 seconds to load the whole topic, awesome compared to my dinosaur dial up that i used to have



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r4etired

03-06-2008 18:15:24




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I use a gizmo that plugs into the computer, had to sign a 18mo deal with Cellular for 60 bucks a month to get it. It is supposed to work any place my cell works. It works fairly well after 9 at nite to about 7 in the morning. During the day sometimes it is hard to get an internet connection. I was told that all cell phone type connections are slow because of the narrow band width they are allowed to use.

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Ron-MO

03-06-2008 17:56:14




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I thought I would never be able to get anything but dial up. I live about 4 miles from a very small town of a few hundred. A little over a year ago the phone co. invested in some equipment and brought high speed DSL to every residence in the area. Not sure what they did, but it works very well. I pay pretty dearly for it (approx $45/month), but I get approx. 2 Mbps download speeds (advertised speed I am paying for it 3 Mbps), but it will easily run streaming video. Not sure if other phone companies are looking to do that or not, but the one I am on is obviously investing some $$ in their systems out here. I live in south central MO. I figure if they can do it here they all could do it if they would just break down and do it. Maybe they think they will not sell enough customers to pay for it.

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Charles Todd

03-06-2008 17:44:30




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I live just far enough out of "town" to not have access to DSL or Cable internet service. I investigated "Wild Blue" which was not even taking new accounts until they could launch another satellite. Their current satellite was full. That was in October 2007. The other option I had was "Hughes Net", this one was more pricey than "Wild Blue". Also, I know several people that have the "Hughes" and they say that they do not recieve advertised upload/download rates, checked my speedtest.net.

Soooo.... I go internet hunting. I chose to use the Cellular Internet from my Cellular provider (Centennial Wireless). I have a Sierra Wireless AirCard 875U (for USB). Currently Centennial has EDGE in my area that gives me about 230kbps downloads. Which means that web browsing is fairly quick, but not as quick as I has in "town" on Cable or DSL. Right now as I type this I also have a download going at 24 KB/s with 4 of 5 signal bars. The best part, about $46.00 a month with taxes and UNLIMITED use in my local area. I average 2-4 GB of traffic a month. I have got in the car a while the wife drove, surfed the web from Natchitoches, LA to Lafayette, LA (130 miles) with out dropping a signal. Rumor has it that Centennial is upgrading from EDGE to a faster service (HTMA?) that might be over 1 MB/Download for the same price.

My advice if you have a good cell signal in your computing area and want a cheaper alternative to satellite, faster than dial-up, and do not require a full 1 MB+ of bandwith, investigate local Cellular providers. You can also use a provider for Data service that is different than whom you have Cellular Phone service. Go out and shop around and ask MANY questions.

P.S. While typing this, I downloaded a 27.1 MB file in less than 20 minutes.

Charles

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bc

03-06-2008 17:24:11




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I know of people using wildblue.net or whatever it is but it like the the other options are spendy. I'm on a DSL but use direct tv for satelite tv. No tv during any kind of moderate rain storm. I'd consider sprint wireless if you are in range and bundle it with the cells. Then you can surf the porn sites while you are out plowing all day. lol



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Red Mist

03-06-2008 17:41:20




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to bc, 03-06-2008 17:24:11  
bc: Great idea, but no wireless up in this valley. Oh, maybe 10% of the time my cell phone works here, but normally have to go down the mountain to get it to work consistantly.
mike



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Vito

03-06-2008 17:07:45




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
Do you folks have cable television out there? No disrespect,I thought most people do.
I go that route for high speed internet connection.
Vito



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BOBM25

03-08-2008 12:49:06




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Vito, 03-06-2008 17:07:45  
Out there? Heck a gentleman at work lives 5 miles outside of a town of about 15,000. He can't get cable tv. NW Ohio too, not western Montana or anything. He's had 3 major dish providers out. None of them can get signal unless they go 60 feet up. He would have to put his dish on a tower 60 feet in the air. Everything has its issues somewhere. This poor guy is screwed. He's stuck in the dark ages without decent internet or cable tv until some provider decides they want to sell it to him.

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Red Mist

03-06-2008 17:35:59




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Vito, 03-06-2008 17:07:45  
vito:
No, they don't offer it through here. I had to go with DirecTV satellite. mike



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Hugh MacKay

03-06-2008 16:59:47




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
Mike: I'm on the same dial up service for 6 years now. Over that time it has continually gotten slower. In the past 3 months I'm getting situations where the server can't handle the traffic flow, or so I think. I get messages like; line you are dialing is busy, number you are dialing is not responding, plus other dumb excuses. The way I have it figured, if they have that many new customers and are that busy, it's time they reinvested and upgraded some of their equipment.

I once got a parking ticket, city of Halifax, Nova Scotia, metered parking, and with little time for an appointment. After parking my car, I find out the meter is not working. When I came back, had a ticket. I send a sharp letter off to city hall, pointed out to them I was the business of hiring equipment out by the hour, quite similar to their damn meter. I further stated that if my equipment was broke down it didn't bring in money.

I've tried the same tactics with Ma Bell couple of times, and both times they gave me a credit on my internet. Next one I'm going to try is sending them a bill for my time sitting in front of this screen waiting for something to download. Remember, back when I first got dialup, my daughter would come from the city, surprised at how much faster my dialup was, than her city high speed. That was 1998, I've used her high speed, see little change over the years. The change in dialup is vast by comparrison. Plain and simple the Internet servers have been picking up rural business big time, and not reinvesting a nickel. Way I have it figured, parked in front of this screen, waiting should be worth lawyers fees.

Remember Mike, squeeky wheel gets the grease, just time we started squeeking louder.

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Red Mist

03-06-2008 17:34:10




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Hugh MacKay, 03-06-2008 16:59:47  
Hugh: While I am not a litigious person, I could not agree more - especially with regard to how I feel about this "ma bell" dial-up.
But.... it was my choice to move to the country from the city, so I guess I should have researched and known the score before going in. Now, I am desperate enough to pay the piper to get some high-speed.
With us both on dial-up, by the time I get your email telling me your final drives are re-painted, they will probably need re-painting again. (Haw-Haw!) Take care, you old "blue nose".
mike

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Hugh MacKay

03-06-2008 17:52:02




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 Re: OT: I can spell SMOOTH in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 17:34:10  
Mike: Not drinking the RUM.



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Hugh MacKay

03-06-2008 17:49:03




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 17:34:10  
Mike: My point, by the way, since we talked, I got some rum from Costa Rica, quite a smmoth drink. To bad our old Bluenose wan't still a rum runner, instead of a tourist attraction and on our dime.

Now, getting back to my point, and you were not out in the sticks in the glory days of dialup. If we country folk were worth bothering with back then, may I suggest we are worth spending a bit of capital investment on, now that they have most of us hooked. Shame on Ma Bell, I say.

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Up North Louie

03-06-2008 16:49:17




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
DirecWay [Hughes] does offer a full megabit bandwidth via satellite, but it's spendy. You either buy the dish up front and pay $60-$80 a month, or more per month with nothing up front.

That's without television, too.

There's a menu of extras.

Here's the link-- it's a simple page and should load in a minute or so.

Link

Also, if you go to My Computer>Properties>Hardware>Device Manager> Modem >Properties>Advanced Tab, you will see a field that says Extra initialization commands. Sometimes your dial-up ISP will tell you a string of characters that will tweak a specific model of modem to optimize the available bandwidth over dial up. Mine did, and I came very close to 50 kbps when I was still on it. It was better than nothing.
Good luck.

Don

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TomH in PA

03-06-2008 16:47:31




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I have HughesNet. It's okay but inconsistent. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow. I keep the dialup account as a backup and because I need VPN for work. Some satellite systems use dialup for data you send and satellite for what you receive; that might be better than pure satellite because the amount of data going out is usually small enough that dialup is faster than the trip up to the satellite and back.

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Doug Kieta

03-06-2008 16:44:24




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
We live at the very end of the phone line in our area of rural TX. The phone company told us to use satellite, which we did. We use hughes.net and have had excellent luck with the medium speed package. Only problem is with heavy cloud cover, which in our part of the world is not much of an issue. Our cost is $69.99 per month.

Good luck.



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Allan In NE

03-06-2008 16:20:09




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I use this outfit and have been with 'em about four years now with 3 dishes.

Heavy, wet snow will make ya cuss yer mama tho. :>(

Allan



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Brent in IA

03-07-2008 04:53:18




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Allan In NE, 03-06-2008 16:20:09  
Hey Allan, I clicked your link and saw the logo and it loks like that company picked up the remnants of that satellite ISP that was hooked up with Dish Network (loosely affiliated) but later shut down? Or their logo just looks similar.

We are 8 miles from 3 towns so can"t pick up the local wireless, even with a signal booster, from any of them. I work at home and have a choice of 256k or 512k DSL from the local phone coop so I currently have two 512k lines (at $74.95 a pop) and a Verizon cellular USB card ($49.95) for my laptop as I travel alot (and for a backup Internet connection when the DSL goes down).

Do you have problems with moving large files (I move files of 500 gigabyte fairly regularly to FTP sites, etc.)?

Thanks and have a great day!

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brian2

03-06-2008 16:18:59




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
Do you have cel phone service? At least in our area (Toronto) you can get high speed internet over cel phone signals, and it"s not too much more then the regular.

my 2 cents.



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Allan In NE

03-06-2008 16:22:41




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to brian2, 03-06-2008 16:18:59  
I looked into that service. Their "high speed" is at best "painful". Some better than phone tho.

Allan



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Red Mist

03-06-2008 16:22:10




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to brian2, 03-06-2008 16:18:59  
I am in a sort of cove, or valley on top of a mountain. My cell phone does not work here, but will if I drive down the mountain about 3 miles.
mike



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Ron in Nebr

03-06-2008 16:18:27




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:09:07  
I'm on dialup too, pretty darn aggravating! Mom and dad have high-speed DSL through our rural phone company at their house a few yards away and it works pretty good. Might not hurt to ask your phone co. if they offer that(maybe you already have).

As for getting internet through a dish, my thoughts on it have always been this- I get my tv through a dish, and every time a heavy rainstorm goes over, it loses signal. Might be for a few minutes, might be for a few hours. So I think it'd be a real pain to have BOTH the tv and the internet go down at the same time.....yeah, I know, it gives a person time to do other stuff, but those rainstorms don't always come through during daylight working hours, and I've read every book in the house multiple times....hate to have to resort to doing dishes or laundry just 'cause it's raining!

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Red Mist

03-06-2008 16:24:30




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Ron in Nebr, 03-06-2008 16:18:27  
Ron: Good idea, but I have already asked the phone company and they do not offer it over the phone lines here. I do have satellite TV and it has been pretty reliable. mike



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Ron in Nebr

03-07-2008 14:11:55




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 Re: OT: Very Rural High Speed Internet in reply to Red Mist, 03-06-2008 16:24:30  
Yep, I knew not everyplace offers it through the phone lines. We"ve had it about a year now...just finally got a tower put up so we could get cell service right before this last Christmas. We"re almost 40 miles from the nearest town and in a pretty thinly populated area, so I guess it"s not a suprise that we get stuff later than most.

We"ve had pretty good luck with sat. tv service, just those thick storms that affect it, usually right when you wanna watch something...but then I don"t watch much tv anyway.

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