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Electrolysis tank - how long does it take?

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tesmith66

03-05-2008 07:07:31




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Here's my setup:

Big plastic tub with rope handles (25 gal?)

Eight 18" long, 1/2" diameter rebar anodes equally spaced around the perimeter

15 gallons of electrolyte mixed at the ratio of 1/2 cup washing soda to 5 gallons of water

12V, 6amp battery charger, positive on anode grid, negative on part

Part (lift quadrant, 340 utility) suspended with bailing wire into electrolyte, not touching anything

I didn't remove the paint or even disassemble the part, i just tossed it in, hoping it would loosen the rusted screws and possibly remove the paint. It has been cooking for 4 full days and nights and still doen't look much different than when I put it in. The paint is lifting off, and a lot of rust is floating on top and sticking to the anodes, but the part still looks relatively untouched and the bolts are still rusted in place. I'm getting lots of nice little champagne like bubbles and the edges are looking good, but it sure is taking a looooong time. Is this normal? It would have been faster to break the bolts off and drill them out. Have I done something wrong? Is this process surface area dependant? Will it go faster as more metal is uncovered? Should I have removed the paint?

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John M

03-06-2008 03:18:22




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to tesmith66, 03-05-2008 07:07:31  
With my limited experience, I stopped using electrolysis. Just too much time involved for me. I did d oa couple of old wrenchs that didnt take too long, but parts, nah, I aint got time to wait on that.



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PaulW_NJ

03-05-2008 19:47:05




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to tesmith66, 03-05-2008 07:07:31  
An ammeter is the best indicator of how effectively your tank is working. There is an electrochemical process going on in converting the rust to a stable form, and the more current flow, measured in amps, the more electrons are being supplied hence the more reaction is made to occur. The more amps you can generate and make to flow, the quicker the period for the rust on the part to be converted.

The higher the voltage applied, the more electric force to drive the current, hence more amps. The more anodes you have, the more surface area to transfer those amps through the solution to the part. Increasing solution strength beyond the recommended level has little or no effect because the ion strength in the solution is not the limiting factor.

I've found the biggest effect in an operating tank is cleaning off the anodes. It's also the least pleasant, and most time consuming, as you have to disconnect everything to take the anodes out to clean. As salts accumulate on their surface, there's less effective area for electrons to be transfered. Monitor the ammeter, and record the amps when the anodes are new, or have been just cleaned. As time goes on you'll see the amps drop. That means it's time to clean the crud layer off of the anodes. Other issues include how heavy your wire gauge is, and how clean the connections between the wires and the anodes.

By the way, to create deadly hydrogen sulfide, you have to have a source of sulfur. There is no sulfur in stainless steel.

I found an old DC power supply that generates 30 volts, and it helps complete the process much quicker than a 12 v charger. I've wondered how it would work to use a DC welder as a power source, but haven't tried it yet.

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Coax

03-05-2008 14:15:37




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to Re: 460 is a knocking..., 03-05-2008 07:07:31  
And using Stainless in Electrolysis generates Hydrogen Sulfide which is TOXIC to mere Mortals,So if you must, do it Outside..... :cry:



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junkmanduff

03-05-2008 15:47:57




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to Coax, 03-05-2008 14:15:37  
You guys are right, i think you use stainless if you are taking things from sea water. My mistake. I will have to check on that.



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Greg-N-ca

03-05-2008 12:16:32




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to tesmith66, 03-05-2008 07:07:31  
The only thing you don't have on your list is patience. I have a very similar set up, but with more electrodes around the side. Adding more washing soda is not beneficial, your mix is correct as is. As the water lowers, add more water to bring it back to the proper mixture.

I’ll leave large items in the tank for four to five days and then hit it with a pressure washer. All paint and rust will fly off!

Good luck, Greg

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HicksDale

03-05-2008 11:30:25




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to tesmith66, 03-05-2008 07:07:31  
I use a piece of metal roofing. That gives more surface area and it works good for me. I clean both the tractor piece and the roofing piece morning and night if I have to cook it for more than a day.



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tesmith66

03-05-2008 10:20:26




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to Re: 460 is a knocking..., 03-05-2008 07:07:31  

NawlensGator said: (quoted from post at 09:42:12 03/05/08)
If you add more surface area the amps should/will go up.

Check your amps and see if you are aready maxed.

I use a 15 amp charger and when I added some Borax the amps went up from 7 to 12. I think the borax increased the ion density, but then I'm not a PhD chemist (thank goodness).


Thanks for the tip. Could adding more soda do the same thing?

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NawlensGator

03-05-2008 08:42:12




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to tesmith66, 03-05-2008 07:07:31  

If you add more surface area the amps should/will go up.

Check your amps and see if you are aready maxed.

I use a 15 amp charger and when I added some Borax the amps went up from 7 to 12. I think the borax increased the ion density, but then I'm not a PhD chemist (thank goodness).



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Back Bay

03-05-2008 08:29:48




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to tesmith66, 03-05-2008 07:07:31  
Sounds like you have everything set up correctly.

I used this method to clean parts on my Super A and it worked well. The electolysis attacks rust so if there is minimal rust under the painted surfaces there will be minimal impact, other than the washing soda working its magic on the paint.

The process will help in loosing rusted bolts. As the part sits in the tank it doesn't appear to change all that much, but when you remove the part, clean with water, and hit with a wire brush it will clean up real nice. Most of the rust around the frozen bolts will easily be removed which will allows your favorite penetrating oil to get to the levels required to break free the stuck parts.

On deeply rusted parts I had to cook for a few days, clean the part with a wire brush, clean the gunk off the anode, and cook overnight again.

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junkmanduff

03-05-2008 08:21:35




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to tesmith66, 03-05-2008 07:07:31  
i may be way off but doesn't the anode have to be stainless.



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rhouston

03-05-2008 12:41:22




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to junkmanduff, 03-05-2008 08:21:35  
stainless last longer and is easier to clean other than that there is no reason



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BackBay

03-05-2008 08:30:48




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 Re: Electrolysis tank - how long does it take? in reply to junkmanduff, 03-05-2008 08:21:35  
No, mild steel.



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