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M 3-point that looks factory

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dansuper27

02-27-2008 09:18:10




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I hate the way the after market 3 points look and wanted something factory looking for my M. I looked at how Farmall put the Fast hitch on the tractors and it's nothing more than casting 3 mounting points on each side of the back of the tractor so I went to the boneyard and measured some hitches. Turns out there is one that is a perfect match if you have a mounting point. I made the mounting brackets and lower arms. The lower arms were copied from my 806. This hitch gives you down pressure also and all my hydraulics work off the belly pump. I have 1 control for the hitch and 1 for a remote. Works great. I have to make a better looking draw bar mount and add the turn buckles for the sway control but I have had this on the tractor for 3 years now and it has worked perfect. This tractor does all my light planting and cultivating Best machine ever built. Everything on it is rebuildable and most parts can still be got at your local case dealer
Here are some pics with one of the bean cutters I'm working on for it. This tractor is almost at the point for getting a complete paint job. Just a few more things need looked at first.

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kossuth

03-01-2008 10:21:06




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to JerryF, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Thanks a bunch dan. Excellent job



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kossuth

02-29-2008 17:51:20




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Dansuper27 would you mind sending pictures to me? I see your pictures on here but they are awful small for me to try to get details. If you have the original uncompressed images and wouldn't mind sending em to me I'd appreciate it. My email address is jsimmerman@verizon.net That is a super nice setup. If I get the chance I might try to copy it for our M. Our 450 already has a aftermarket setup on it but the aftermarket units seem awful bulky and clumsy. I'd like to maybe get pictures first to get a better visual idea before I would dive into it. Thanks

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dansuper27

02-29-2008 19:29:43




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to kossuth, 02-29-2008 17:51:20  
Pictures are on the way. Hope you have a fast connection.



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gots-2-go

02-28-2008 05:21:46




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
GREAT job, you do very good work !!!

I would be very interested in a template for the side pieces too if you have one available.

I will pay you for your time and trouble to make one if you would.

Thanks for sharing this information and the photos.



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dansuper27

02-28-2008 08:18:51




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to gots-2-go, 02-28-2008 05:21:46  
Everyone who wants a template email me and when I get back in town in April I'll send out the templates. I made a precision ply template when I made this which I'll trace to a heavy card board which then can be rolled up to ship.



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Spook

02-28-2008 00:06:56




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Wow! Nice work!!



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karl f

02-27-2008 22:54:57




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  

dansuper27 said: (quoted from post at 21:35:20 02/27/08) OK folks..I didn't think this would cause so much interest.

To answer some questions. The draw bar is not altered from the factory position.
If the draw bar pto distance from Farmall meets the asae standard the yes it is asae.
I have no idea if the hitch arms meet any standards for the pto relationship. .


sounds perfect on the drawbar pull point to pto relation then, usually the factory swinging drawbars give the right dimension (14"?).

as to the hitch arms, you can easily measure your 806 and compare. i do not know what that figure is supposed to be, but think that specification is a little loosely applied in the industry, as most 3pt pto implement instructions i have glanced at mention cutting the pto shaft to the length you need...
one word of advice/warning about such heavy arms on an M or smaller: those would be considered category II, and the horsepower classification of that hitch category can easily get an inexperienced operator in trouble with implements, as many of them will easily exceed an M's power and weight ratings/capabilities, although the M is right near the bottom of the cat II hp rating. if you would market a complete hitch or the plans, you would be best to have/specify a category I hitch. I know the convienience of cat II though, we have a 3 bottom 3 pt plow with cat II pins/bar that a good M or 400 should be able to pull if they had the right hitch :wink: tough call on an M/400/560, either way has it's cons. h/300 would definitely be cat I.

thanks for sharing
karl f

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dansuper27

02-28-2008 08:33:37




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to karl f, 02-27-2008 22:54:57  
The reason I went with the Cat II arms is the old time engineers made the M tractor heavy duty enough in all aspects that you could not damage it performing whatever tasks you where reasonably doing with it. Emphasis on reasonably. With Cat 2 arms you could put a 3 bottom plow on and then find out the tractor either won't lift them or won't pull them because of horse power but nothing would be damaged because if it does lift them their weight wouldn't reasonably break anything and I would be surprised if it could pull them. Bottom line is I wanted them strong enough that the limiting factor is the tractor not the arms.

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Armand Tatro

02-27-2008 21:30:45




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
I would also like a template or a set of drawings also. Also a close-up picture of where the adjusting rods attatch to the side arms.
Thankyou for your time.
Armand Tatro
P>O> box# 367
Ashkum, Ilinois 60911



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dansuper27

02-27-2008 22:34:41




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to Armand Tatro, 02-27-2008 21:30:45  
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Here are some more pics. I incorporated the sway control with the fender mount/spacer plate. It's heavy wall tube that is welded to the plate at the top and bolted at the bottom to clamp the axle casting. In some of the pics you can see the cross piece that ties both sides together where the arms mount to the bottom of the plates. The rear v shaped support on the drawbar is for weight carrying only. It was made to bolt into the bolt hole for the piece that kept it on the old drawbar support. When you make it be sure it is sized to hold the drawbar up and not contribute to the drawbar pull. The pin under the belly takes that stress as originally intended. I'm not sure how much down weight the castings will handle with this set-up but I don't know many pieces of equipment that you would hook to an M that would have a tongue weight that would be a problem. My planters, hay rake, ditcher and all the other things I have hooked with this set-up don't have high tongue weights. I don't bale with this tractor as my modified NH 320 balers are too large for this tractor. My NH 268 is sized right put I don't think it would be an issue either. I say all this since this is the only part of this set-up that I even remotely think could have an issue. When I get back home I'll take some more pics of the various areas of discussion so you have a complete picture how this integrates with the tractor. The hitch allows any wheel spacing and doesn't interfere with anything you would put on the tractor except the old cultivators that clamped parts to the axles. The picture with the bean cutters have the wheel spacing at 66 inches for 22 inch beans. I can still cultivate 30 inch corn without having to change spacing for the 22 inch beans.

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dansuper27

02-27-2008 21:55:54




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to Armand Tatro, 02-27-2008 21:30:45  
I'm in Tucson with my job for the month of March. I'll get to all the requests for a template when I get back. I promise.



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Hoosier Pete

02-27-2008 20:45:45




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Man, that is a NICE piece of work!!! Thanks for sharing

Pete



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Lee in Iowa

02-27-2008 19:58:48




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Very nice job. This is something I have thought about doing ever since I saw someone make their 560 fast hitch into a three point basically the same way. Someone else asked about templates for the side pieces I would be interested in those too if you have any. I'd pay for your time and trouble. Lee



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karl f

02-27-2008 18:26:39




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to 856, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  

Harold H said: (quoted from post at 18:07:32 02/27/08) Very nice looking hitch. To make it look even more "factory" you could use the transmission top from a Farmall B-450 and have a built in rockshaft and do away with the external cylinder.

Harold H


Does anyone know if the cover off a 656/544 would bolt up (even remotely close with some modification) to an old H/M/3x0/4x0/560 trans? if the international 544 one would, you could have 3rd link sensing!!!
and on the B-450, did those have draft control at all or just position?
in reality, how many people ever use(d) draft control properly? my dad and uncle always had draft lever in the no sense position on the ihs and on the ford it was set to position control, even when plowing.

karl f

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Harold H

02-29-2008 15:02:58




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to karl f, 02-27-2008 18:26:39  
If the 656, 666, or 544 tops would fit, which I doubt, you would have to rig different shift linkage as they do not have a conventional shift lever. The Farmall B-450 does not have draft control, but it's top will bolt on with only hydraulic modifications..

Harold H



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Harold H

02-27-2008 17:07:32




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Very nice looking hitch. To make it look even more "factory" you could use the transmission top from a Farmall B-450 and have a built in rockshaft and do away with the external cylinder.

Harold H



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Glenn F.

02-27-2008 15:10:28




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
My issue with the Saginaw on an H (or M) is that it just looks too large/heavy. It does not look factory at all. It's no secret the same hitch is used from the H to the 450, or maybe even bigger. I know every company needs to keep cost down, but....

Glenn F.



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NDS

02-27-2008 18:14:49




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to Glenn F., 02-27-2008 15:10:28  
It does look rather hefty but extra weight on rear of tractor is not a bad thing. The Saginaw is probaly at least as heavy as a set of wheel weights.



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Allan In NE

02-27-2008 16:13:51




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to Glenn F., 02-27-2008 15:10:28  
Glenn,

It doesn't look right to you because none of those old tractors had three-point hitches.

None of 'em until what? The 656? 666? Maybe?

Allan



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dansuper27

02-27-2008 20:41:42




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to Allan In NE, 02-27-2008 16:13:51  
It doesn't look right to you because none of those old tractors had three-point hitches.

None of 'em until what? The 656? 666? Maybe?

Allan

When they (Farmall) started putting hitches on their tractors starting with the 350 the only change was to have the 3 threaded dimples cast into the rear casting so you could bolt on the fast hitch. The M is about the same as the 350 and that's where the idea came from. It does look right because the hitch is in proportion to it's size now.

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NDS

02-27-2008 14:57:12




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
If it works as good as it looks you are the new 3 point champiom. Neater than Saginaw the old champion.



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dansuper27

02-28-2008 09:07:16




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to NDS, 02-27-2008 14:57:12  
The hitch does work as good as it looks. The M tractor and even the H is the perfect tractor for small operators. Tractors today in that horse power class are way too expensive and then they are still sized to small to do any real field work. You can get an M or H for a decent price and if you take the time repair the usual stuff hydraulic and electric and brakes (did I mention brakes?) these are great tractors. My M starts right up with the old 6 volt system has good brakes and the belly pump works just fine for any hydraulics I need on implements. And you can still get parts for these great machines. The only limiting factor was NO 3 point. Small operators today and folks trying to get their foot in the door can't go buy a 50,000 dollar machine and cost it out to be profitable. The M tractor I have was my grandfathers and then my Dad's and now it's mine and someday I'll pass it on to the next generation. How many pieces of junk 100,000 dollar machines of todays AG industry can you say that about. That M cannot truly be worn out. Every piece on it I have had to work on was built so the castings won't wear. It can be rebuilt forever but more importantly it is of such solid design that you don't work on it much. It just goes like the energizer bunny. I just wish there where as many M sized implements still left out there. Those are harder to find than the tractors.

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NDS

02-28-2008 10:49:38




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-28-2008 09:07:16  
I have Dads Super M that he bought used over 50 years ago. Tractor has had Saginaw for over 30 years and I have found that it works well with about anything but moldboard plow.



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John M

02-27-2008 14:32:52




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Man, I hope your going to do something about that pink paint. ;) I like that, I may save your pics for future reference.



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karl f

02-27-2008 14:03:28




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to blksvt04, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
just wanted to add that your method of lift link attatchment to the rear housing looks pretty much like how they did it in england and australia, based on the photos of those models that i have seen--3 pt was all the rage over there, never fast hitch. the main difference on those is the transmission cover had a lift cylinder cast into it. think 504, 544, 656 type. so again, good work!

karl f

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karl f

02-27-2008 13:48:04




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
neat. :) gotta ask some important basics:

does your drawbar pull from the factory location under the transmission (for safety sake)?

does your pto to drawbar draw pin distance meet the asae standard?

does your pto to lift arm ball/pin distance meet asae standard?

if not, they should be modified in it's final form, especially the drawbar mount and distance to pto shaft.
good work, just looking out for your safety :)

karl f

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dansuper27

02-27-2008 20:35:20




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to karl f, 02-27-2008 13:48:04  
OK folks..I didn't think this would cause so much interest.

To answer some questions.

The draw bar is not altered from the factory position. If the draw bar pto distance from Farmall meets the asae standard the yes it is asae.
I have no idea if the hitch arms meet any standards for the pto relationship. I just know that I can kill weeds with my 3 point bush hog with no problem and it pulls a 6 row ditcher and cultivator with no problems. It also handles my 125 gallon JD 3 point sprayer. Safety was the issue when I put this on and it has been tested in field conditions with no problems.
The external cylinder is in the factory mounting position. I would not want to change it. When I mounted this no parts where modified in any way. I hate to take a collectors item and do that. The fast hitch can be removed and bolted right back on the tractor it fits.

Yes I have a perfect plywood template for this mod. I can trace it to cardboard for anyone that is interested. When you make the mounting plates the bolts where it bolts to the axle housing have to be replaced with longer ones. You also have to slightly bevel the outside radius of the ears where the bolts go to bolt it up so the plate will fit tight against the tractor housing.
The top link needs to have a full length piece of pipe to enclose the rock shaft so it won't move side to side. I haven't got around to it yet.


You can take a factory set of lower hitch arms and bolt them on if I remember right but they wanted alot of cash for them so I patterned a set by copying the ones on my 806. I figure they should be strong enough to handle anything an M can dish out and then some. The arms themselves are made from some solid hardened steel I got from Watsons welding that are used for cultivator shanks. Yes...red spray can paint that turns pink sucks but it does keep it from rusting until I get all the stuff done before the full paint job. I still need to go into the trans to replace a bearing thats going out. When you put it in road gear it's noticeable. Field speeds no problem yet.

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Chester5731

02-27-2008 12:07:31




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Do you perhaps have a template for the side pieces that bolt to the rearend? I think I have enough pieces laying around to do the same thing
Thanks



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Rootsy

02-27-2008 10:24:00




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to Keith in Iowa, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  

dansuper27 said: (quoted from post at 10:18:10 02/27/08) I hate the way the after market 3 points look and wanted something factory looking for my M. I looked at how Farmall put the Fast hitch on the tractors and it's nothing more than casting 3 mounting points on each side of the back of the tractor so I went to the boneyard and measured some hitches. Turns out there is one that is a perfect match if you have a mounting point.
I made the mounting brackets and lower arms. The lower arms were copied from my 806.
This hitch gives you down pressure also and all my hydraulics work off the belly pump. I have 1 control for the hitch and 1 for a remote. Works great.
I have to make a better looking draw bar mount and add the turn buckles for the sway control but I have had this on the tractor for 3 years now and it has worked perfect. This tractor does all my light planting and cultivating Best machine ever built. Everything on it is rebuildable and most parts can still be got at your local case dealer

Here are some pics with one of the bean cutters I'm working on for it.
This tractor is almost at the point for getting a complete paint job. Just a few more things need looked at first.
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Nice looking results. I see you used a 460 / 560 style fast hitch, converted to a 3 pt. You beat me to it as I am in the process of putting the same thing together for my 560. On paper anyway... My FH is pretty worn out and needs to be rebuilt anyway... So what the heck.

Exceptionally nice addition to an M also....

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big red 1

02-27-2008 09:52:02




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Well done.I may try that myself
Randy In Iowa



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Allan In NE

02-27-2008 09:42:14




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
That is wayyyyy , wwwwaaaayyyyy NICE! You really, really do good work!

Allan



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little john

02-27-2008 09:39:46




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Looks like you did a great job of engineering!



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Janicholson

02-27-2008 09:32:32




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 Re: M 3-point that looks factory in reply to dansuper27, 02-27-2008 09:18:10  
Quite the beauty JimN



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