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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Why did the D361 last so long?

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Kelly C

02-13-2008 11:26:42




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I read an article on the 806 with the D361 as being a monster of a combo. 20000 hrs plus on this motor was not uncomon.
Did any one ever figure out why?




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farm-al

02-14-2008 20:00:00




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to Kelly C, 02-13-2008 11:26:42  
I worked for a Detroit Diesel dist. for 32 years rebuilding engines and doing all the machine work on the blocks, we had a sk10 honing machine I used to honed out the 8.2 cyl bores to oversize,one IH mechanic used to press the sleeves into the361 block then bring it to me and I would hone the cylinders and tape fit the pistons, he always had good luck with rebuild life,the trouble with dry sleeves is the heat transfer can be a problem if the block bores aren't straight,thats why we usually rebored the 71 blocks and fit oversized OD liners,thanks,Al

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chadd

02-14-2008 05:55:29




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to Kelly C, 02-13-2008 11:26:42  
I would attribute at least part of the additional life to dry cylinder liners. In the 1970"s, in some areas of the country, 400 series motors were actually wearing through the outside of the sleeves well before the bores would wear out. The wet liners combined with the typical use of well water led to terrible cavitation erosion of the cylinder liners, especially with the engines running high cylinder pressures (turbos). The 361 had the sleeves placed right into the block, which keeps them away from the water and cavitation and keeps them from flexing under operation. But, it also leads to the rebuild problems. The 361 sleeves need to be pressed in. If they are a little too tight, they will deform, and then will wear out brand new piston rings and pistons very quickly. If they are rebuilt right, I am sure they last almost as long as the first lifetime.

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Hugh MacKay

02-14-2008 09:25:49




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to chadd, 02-14-2008 05:55:29  
Chadd: You hit the nail on the head, these engines both 56 series and 66 series tractors are not backyard or blacksmith shop rebuild jobs if you want them to last. They are a job for a professional engine rebuilder. I've done it both ways, believe me I know which is the most economical long term.



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Owen Aaland

02-14-2008 02:34:43




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to Kelly C, 02-13-2008 11:26:42  
If you had one of the early D361 engines you may not have thought that they were such a great engine. Early production engines suffered a lot of cracked blocks on the side near the injection pump. On these blocks the right side was scalloped around the cylinder bores. Later blocks are almost straight on the right side and are stronger.



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Kelly C

02-13-2008 18:24:38




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to Kelly C, 02-13-2008 11:26:42  
Thanks guys. Thats sound great to me. Now my next question.
If I was to buy a old 806 with a high hr D361. Then spend the money to rebuild it. Would I be likely to get real good life out of it or is it just for the 1st build?



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RossIL

02-13-2008 20:35:33




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to Kelly C, 02-13-2008 18:24:38  
I"ve heard on the Red Power board that the 361"s and 407"s ran great on the first builds but they"re really hard to get long life out of the rebuilds. It"s also been said over there that those motors are much more finicky to rebuild conditions ie tolerances, cleanliness and so forth than the 400 series motors.
Check over on that page with the number of guys who have 1206"s over there there"s a lot of discussion on that motor series.
Ross

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Hugh MacKay

02-13-2008 16:24:32




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to Kelly C, 02-13-2008 11:26:42  
Kelly: Kirsch has given you the how and why, definitely the best engine IH ever built. Probably one of the best engines of all time, any make.

Why did they quit making them? No money in selling engines that don't wear out fast enough. Who knows thay might even have survived if they hadn't followed them with 66 series 400 engines.



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mkirsch

02-13-2008 11:48:36




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to Steven f/AZ, 02-13-2008 11:26:42  
I believe it's due to what I call cubic-inch-to-block-mass (CIBM) ratio.

The D361 has a low CIBM ratio, meaning the holes for the cylinders are fairly small compared to the size of the block.

You've got thermal mass there to soak up the heat and radiate it away in a controlled manner. There's more material in the block, which reduces its tendency to flex, twist, shrink, or grow under heavy loads and high temperatures (don't kid yourself, engine blocks DO twist and flex).

As soon as you start punching out the holes for more cubes, and clearancing the bottom end for longer strokes, you're removing valuable material that was making the block more durable.

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Dan Henebry

02-13-2008 15:11:46




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 Re: Why did the D361 last so long? in reply to mkirsch, 02-13-2008 11:48:36  
I have to agree with the your philosophy on the cubic inch mass ratio. You can get 350 hp out of an M11 cummins and you can get 350 hp out of an N14 cummins but you get twice the life out of the N14



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