Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Vertical exhaust

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Mark W.

02-12-2008 06:45:08




Report to Moderator

I would like to trim about 3 inches off my 340 vertical muffler and obviously reinstall the rain cap. Is there any harm in doing such? Also, why when I start it up to I get a light mist of oil from the exhaust? It will reek havoc a new paint job.




[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
IH2444

02-12-2008 11:38:11




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Mark W., 02-12-2008 06:45:08  
On the limbs. I put a coupler in my exhaust pipe that just extends up above the hood. Into that I screwed another piece with the threads liberally annointed with anti-seize and brazed the muffler to it. the trick is that 1 inch above the treads on the top piece of exhaust pipe I used a pipe cutter to ring the pipe and almost cut it off so it will break before the manifold will.

It has not been tested in combat yet but should work and also allows me to simply unscrew the muffler section from the coupler and remove the hood when needed.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob Kerr

02-12-2008 10:19:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Mark W., 02-12-2008 06:45:08  
I had read on old achives about the exhaust is "tuned" to the engine to help it scavange exhaust out of the engine. Not sure if it is true or not. I have noticed when the alum burns off a new muffler there is a pattern to the burn mark which might indicate that is the case. Anybody else remember those posts from a few years ago? I will say for sure if you cut off the pipe, be prepared to get gassed! If you head into the wind that exhaust will blow right back at you at face level and you will have a want for fresh air. I raised the pipes up on my H and M by loosening the clamp and raising the muffler up some and it helped a bunch. If you do cut it off at least have a muffler shop make you a turn out pipe and blow it off to the side some. You will he happier with it for sure! Hugh is right on about the oil. I have grown to hate rain caps because of the clanking noise at idle. I guess it is a mechanic thing because I don"t like something sounding loose and rattling, even if it is supposed to be loose. I use soup cans! All my tractors get a new can every Christmas!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CenTexFarmall

02-12-2008 12:22:52




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Bob Kerr, 02-12-2008 10:19:33  
While it is possible to "Ram tune" a vehicle exhaust system, I don't think we have that going on with the Farmalls.

The ram tuning only works within a narrow RPM range.
Also you'll want a relatively freeflowing exhaust with individual pipes going to each cylinder. The idea is to time the "reflected" pressure wave from an exhaust pulse with the opening of the exhaust valve so that negative pressure exists at the exhaust valve as it is begining to open. As rpm changes, so does the timing of the pulses and at some point you have positive pressure and inhibited exhaust flow. I guess if you could invent an exhaust pipe that changes length with RPM you could make it work over a wider range!

With a typical cast iron manifold that dumps all the cylinder more or less into a "log", the ram tuning effect is basically lost.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob Kerr

02-12-2008 23:02:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to CenTexFarmall, 02-12-2008 12:22:52  
Right, like a header, but I think what I read in several posts was something about the length of the pipe cooling the exhaust and helping pull it through sort of like an expansion chamber on a 2 cycle. It may have been back in 1999 when I saw those posts and it was so long ago I may have read it wrong or remember it wrong. I didn"t give it much thought as my tractors back then were 10-20s and an F-12 with a short stack. Didn"t get into the modern age of H and M until last spring.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
CenTexFarmall

02-13-2008 21:31:53




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Bob Kerr, 02-12-2008 23:02:38  
I think I know what you're talking about. The expansion chamber being used as a resonator.

I haven't really paid attention to the manifold on an F-12, I'll have to notice next time I see one.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

02-12-2008 07:25:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Mark W., 02-12-2008 06:45:08  
Mark: Only two places the oil can come from, breather cup too full, or it's coming up past your rings. Is it fresh oil or just a black mixture of gas and oil? Quite an easy fix if the breather cup is too full, not quite so easy if coming by the rings from the crankcase.

Your not going to hurt anything by cutting 3" off the top of that mufler. I've had 8" off my SA for years, mainly to keep it from catching trees when mowing. Just use a hack saw and smooth it with a grinder afterwards. If it's just a matter of getting through the shed door, throw the damn rain cap away, that will give you 3" extra clearence, and the 3" of pipe will do you more good than the rain cap. One thing I don't like with my SA with pipe cut off, if wind is right direction, it blows fumes in one's face. Without the raincap very little of that oil mist will hit your paint job. If the tractor is just going to sit out one night overnight it wont take on enough water to fill a thimble even in a 3" rain fall, providing there is not a high building or tree deflecting water down the stack. If it's going to sit out long term, soup can is the best raincap. I've seen those raincaps up in rain and wind, and actually deflecting water down the stack.

I've also seen raincaps catch on tree limbs and break the manifold or exhaust pipe on small tractors. They do last quite well on a diesel, however gassers burn rain caps up in 600 hours. Just a waste on money in my opinion.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Red Mist

02-12-2008 13:23:00




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-12-2008 07:25:43  
Hugh:
Best rain protection I've ever seen for a vertical tractor exhaust is to keep an old dismounted car tire around. Hang it over the top of the pipe (pipe inside the tire). The wind can blow 50 mph and that tire will stay there and keep the water out long after the soup can has blown into the next county. mike



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dave Sherburne NY

02-12-2008 10:23:49




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-12-2008 07:25:43  
third party image

This is what Gene is talking about, I just picked
up the elbow at my local auto parts store.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

02-12-2008 11:02:43




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Dave Sherburne NY, 02-12-2008 10:23:49  
Dave: I know what he meant, but it does make the tractor look ugly. My stack is just about level with top of my head, don't want it any lower than that, I hate fumes in my face. I once got sick on a old H with a short stack, disking and breathing those fumes. NO THANKS, not again. I cut all the limbs lower than that.

Gene's got a B out there in Iowa with 16" rear tires. I tell Gene, I'm going to take my Woods and a V6 buick engine I have here and build my own zero turn. There is a guy in Newfoundland, claims he has a 454 Chevy 4 barrel in his ride on mower.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Janicholson

02-12-2008 09:49:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-12-2008 07:25:43  
I respectfully disagree. If 1" of rain gets into the tube of a rain gauge, that same one inch is inside the engine. I understand the need for reduced height, but the rain cap is (opinion) going to limit water intrusion. We all intend to do the correct thing, when a tractor is ignored for several months (by accident, family emergancy, or the fact that it is not visible), they get rusted and stuck. If it will blow hard and furious, a wired down coffee can might be best (over the top of the rain cap)
Just my definition of reality. JimN

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

02-12-2008 10:51:20




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Janicholson, 02-12-2008 09:49:16  
Jim: A tractor parked away from any down drafts will take roughly 10% of what a rain gauge collects. We argued this one many times years ago back home. Finally put a device in the stack to catch all the water going down the stack.

I believe there are two factors at work here, fist being few rain gauges are 6' - 9' off the ground, secondly wind hitting the tractor creates an up draft causing much of water to blow right over the tractor. So many people park their tractor in the shelter of a building or a tree, that will put water down a stack probably twice the rain fall. Another bad one is the rain cap blown open by wind, deflecting water right down the stack. The very worst is an exhaust pipe or manifold leak, those catch much of the rain that hits the hood.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Bob Kerr

02-12-2008 23:17:35




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-12-2008 10:51:20  
Hi Hugh, Last week we had a big time nasty storm come through, the one that spawned the tornados in Tenn. We had a twister here in Indiana not far from me in Bloomfield. Any way when the wind hit, it blew the tarp off my M. I put my poncho on and went out to cover it back up because the pipe in the manifold is loose and water does get in. I watched what was happening and most of the rain that hit the muffler and stayed there and not splashed off from the impact, ran right down the muffler and pipe and went in the manifold. Not much ran down the hood and in, but some did as well. When the storm passed and I went out to start it to blow the water out, it went everywhere! I keep the drain open, but some stayed in. I am just glad I didn"t get zapped by lightning while I was watching that!

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Hugh MacKay

02-13-2008 02:57:23




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Bob Kerr, 02-12-2008 23:17:35  
Bob: My 300 once had threads bad on pipe going into manifold. We had tightened it several times, but it wouldn't stay tight. A heavy storm was forcast, and I watched as the operator put a cover over the exhaust, assumed that he had probably just tightened the pipe. Next morning I discovered the pipe was so loose, it was lieing against the hood. I turned it very slowly by hand until it fetched up. I took the plugs out and had water in 3 cylinders. I think when I started turning one cylinder was already full and the manifold had been full. When I took hood off removed pipe manifold was wet inside and the rain had been over for hours. 300 sheet metal unlike the H & M is one piece from front to back, (two sides and a center section). We could see where water ran along those to the pipe. That was only about 3" rainfall.

In contrast, I got caught once 300 and 560 both on flood plain, neither pipe was covered. It rained 9" in 24 hours. Flood waters came up, however trctors were on a high knoll, drawbar deep in water and we couldn't get to them other than by boat for 3 days. Didn't even try as the ground around them would have been soft from all the rain. On the 4th day We got out there, started them, they blew a bit of black soot, definitely nothing in the cylinders.

This is what sparked the debate at our farm on just how much water actually get down a stack, and what conditions make it worse. My dad argued that with tight exhaust in a an open field situation, very little water will get in the tractor. There were about 6 of us in that discussion. A few weeks later dad came in the barn one morning after a rain. He had a condom in his hand, course everyone got on his case as why a 60 year old would need that. However this was his proof on water down the stack, he had placed this in the stack of the 130 before the rain. There was water in it, but certainly no where near the rainfall we had. He had checked the rain gauge and figured about 10% got down the stack.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
gene bender

02-12-2008 09:04:33




Report to Moderator
 Re: Vertical exhaust in reply to Hugh MacKay, 02-12-2008 07:25:43  
HUGH you need to go to a muffler shop with your muffler and a piece of pipe the inlit size and let them bend you a large u-shaped piece so the muffler points down that way its quieter and no branches to catch. I even thought about taking regular pipe and two 90s and a couple of short length pieces to do the same thing. I have done several this way on ones ive sold with a mower the owners think its a good deal. Hey its snowing again here been quite a winter as we had our normal before JAN and still long time till the grass grows. later

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy