Welcome! Please use the navigational links to explore our website.
PartsASAP LogoCompany Logo Auction Link (800) 853-2651

Shop Now

   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver

Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
:

Long Time Question on Super M

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author 
Tom43

02-11-2008 08:46:01




Report to Moderator

Dear Forum'
Several years ago I overhauled a Super M for a neighbor. I even had the timing case off to replace the front seal on the crankshaft. Cam to crank timing marks were all ok. When I was all done the tractor ran great but I thought I would put a timing light on it to fine tune it. To my great surprise the marks on the pointer were way off and when set correctly the tractor would barely run. This puzzle has bothered me for years as the front pully is solid unlike harmonic balancers and was propery keyed to the crankshaft. as I said, the tractor ran great but not where it was supposed to. I hope some of the Farmall experts will respond.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
Chuck's Repair

02-11-2008 15:20:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Tom43, 02-11-2008 08:46:01  
The distributer shaft plate that holds the weights has a number stamped on it.That number is the maximum degrees that that distributer will advance.
Chuck



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
karl f

02-11-2008 12:22:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Tom43, 02-11-2008 08:46:01  
i think the specs for the distributor begin to list a small amount of advance at only 250 rpm. i believe that it's in distributor rpm (double for crank), have to look. also i think there were a couple different pulleys with a different number of marks...it's possible you looked at the right info for the wrong pulley and the result is about 15 degrees off. there may be other pulleys that fit than the 2 originally optioned for the engine, adding to more marking confusion. plus could be the "wrong" or field changed over distributor. question for others: what changes did the firecrater kit do to the advance timing curve?


karl f

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Janicholson

02-11-2008 08:51:50




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Tom43, 02-11-2008 08:46:01  
As easy as pie:
The timing mark is static timing for the point opening when at cranking speed (or hand cranking) It is TDC. The timing with a light requires a degree wheel or Geometric calculation of circumferential distance to mark the correct location of the timing when running (they have advance mechanism) Magneto systems in Farmalls do not have advance mechanisms except the impulse coup[ling, so they are fuill advance upon starting. JimN

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Andy Martin

02-11-2008 08:51:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Tom43, 02-11-2008 08:46:01  
The timing marks are set for static timing.

With the tractor running you have to accomodate the centrifugal advance and put a new timing mark on the harmonic balancer to get it timed right. But why use a timing light when the engine was designed, and works well, with static timing?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tom43

02-11-2008 09:26:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Andy Martin, 02-11-2008 08:51:30  
Thank you both for the prompt replys. However, the tractor had a distributor not a magneto and I was idling the tractor very slowly in order not to get any centrifugal advance The advance mechanism in the distributor was working properly with no broken springs etc. Running timing at full throttle on a Super M is supposed to be 35 degrees at full throttle and this was way off also. I measured the circumference of the front pulley and marked off 35 degrees from the static timing mark. I am still baffled.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ScottyHOMEy

02-11-2008 10:55:38




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Tom43, 02-11-2008 09:26:55  
I don't mean this as an insult. Did you measure off the 35* in the right driection? You say "way off" but not how far or in which direction.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tom 43

02-11-2008 11:50:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 02-11-2008 10:55:38  
Thanks for the reply. I was wrong on the number of degrees for full advance as it should be 30 degrees instead of 35 as I stated. Looking at the pulley from the front of the tractor I measured 30 degrees clockwise from the timing mark which would be 30 degrees BTDC. It seems that it was still quite a bit more advanced than this. The main thing I remember is the tractor being 40 or 50 degrees advanced at very slow idle. specifications call for a maximum advance of 9 degrees at 800rpm and I was probably at 400 rpm.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ScottyHOMEy

02-11-2008 12:50:57




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Tom 43, 02-11-2008 11:50:28  
This is a gas engine, right? If so which direction is your timing off in?

The tables I'm looking at (from IT-8) show 0* up to 200 RPM for a Super M gasser, 4.5* advance at 400, 12* at 600, reaching a full advance of 15* at 800



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Tom43

02-11-2008 13:34:45




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 02-11-2008 12:50:57  
Dear Scotty,
That is the same table I am using, but you must remember those are distributor degrees which must be doubled for crankshaft degrees.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
ScottyHOMEy

02-11-2008 13:49:13




Report to Moderator
 Re: Long Time Question on Super M in reply to Tom43, 02-11-2008 13:34:45  
Touche'! (Note to self: Read the header on the chart, Taylor!)

So which direction are you off? And by eyeball, how many degrees?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
We sell tractor parts!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2023 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy