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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Negative Ground Part III - another question

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DanJ13655

01-25-2008 04:59:15




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Went out again this morning (single digits -- brrrr!) and my little H fired and started right off! Yay!! Anyway, right after I started the poor thing, and let it warm up a bit and smooth out, I checked the charging system. I know that the generator is supposed to put out more than 6 volts, but I checked at the battery and my voltmeter read 8.50 volts. Too much? OK? Thanks again.




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Bob M

01-25-2008 11:38:13




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
With the temp in single digits 8.5 volts is only a bit high for a 6 volt generator system.

Keep in mind also as the generator/VR warm up to "normal" temps the output voltage will drop by as much as a volt or so. Also under extreme cold it takes extra voltage to recharge the battery.

I'd say long as the ammeter indicates 10 - 12 amps or less while charging I wouldn't be concerned.

Also as JimN suggests below double check your DVM against a known good analog meter! Reason is even many "good" DVM's give inaccurate readings when confronted with the electrical noise in old tractor electrics.

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Tom43

01-25-2008 11:03:47




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
My experience with 8 volt batteries is very negative. Pun intended. Eight volt batteries are hard on the whole electrical system outside of the starter. The extra voltage which must be boosted to around 9.5 to 10 will put enough extra current through ignition points to burn them. The extra current through both the cut out relay and voltage regulator will send that unit to an early grave also.

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Brownie450

01-25-2008 09:54:29




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
Any chance of the generator being 12 volts???



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mkirsch

01-25-2008 09:43:40




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to dzwoodcutter, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
From what you just said, everything is FINE just the way it is.



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Dan J 13655

01-25-2008 09:33:40




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
Well, last night when I finally got the thing to start, I ran it for maybe 15-20 minutes. I checked the battery then, just before I turn it off, and got a 7.4 reading. This morning, when I got the 8.5 volts, it had been running only long enough to warm up a tiny bit and smooth out.

To answer questions: it's got a distributor, the generator's third brush isn't boosting to 8 volts (I don't think -- it's a replacement), and it's definitely a 6-volt battery -- brand-spankin'-$60-new. My multimeter is fairly new and it's actually a pretty good, reliable piece of equipment (Craftsman -- and it's Farmall Red). ( :-{> I gotta admit, I like the 8-volt battery/system idea, though. Thanks for all the ideas and help.

I will run 'er again this evening for twenty mintes or so, and check it when I'm well into operating temp.

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John T

01-25-2008 09:16:40




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
Dan, that is a lil on the high side for my tastes ifffff fffff f it stayed there a long time but if its only there say 10 to 15 mins (depending on battery condition and loads) then she backs off to more like 6.5 to 7.5 max Id say she is okay..... I wouldnt worry too much for the short run, let things stabilize n the VR contacts wash in n make sure the battery is good before you run out n work on her lol

Also how accurate is your meter????? A good n charged batetry just setting ought to read around 6.3 volts what does you meter say your battery is setting...

If the battery starts boiling over acid and/or outgasses too much she is overcharging n can fry the battery so watch for that.. If the VR works right Id expect the battery voltage at 7 to 7.5 max for a while then back off to 6.5 to 7 depending again on battery condition n genny n loads

John T

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ihc49er#2

01-25-2008 08:45:15




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
just wanted to let you know they make an 8volt batt.so you can get a little more ooommf out of the starter.there is nothin wrong with 6 volt systems, big thing is there not kept up to snuff. the heavy cables get replaced with thin ones. dirty cable ends,or weak batterys,poor push start switches, exc.i believe the 6 volt should go with the nostalgia of the tractor.i plan on buying an 8 volt batt.to see how much improvement it has.i know your talking about charging, but i hear a lot of people swearing about 6 volt batt.and wanted to mention this.i dont believe in switching to 12v when 6v was designed to work.these engines dont have to turn over very fast to start. but i guess this is my opinion about the subject.

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Janicholson

01-25-2008 06:11:22




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
That is on the high side (maybe .4 volts too much) but Regulators are often temperature compensated and when they are cold, they charge more volts. I would run it the way it is (and watch the battery water level if it has caps) until spring and 50+ degree weather. Batterys can be just fine on that diet of input when cold.
Cars often put out 16+ volts into batteries in the winter. If it does begin to heat the battery, or continues to charge high when thew temp is warm, I would adjust the VR (using a good old electrical system manual from Motors, or an older generator friendly text. The type is a Delco "A" system. Good luck JimN

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Janicholson

01-25-2008 06:19:08




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to Janicholson, 01-25-2008 06:11:22  
As an added element of reduced "suprise" I also recommend testing your meter by checking the tractor with a good analog (needle and scale type) meter. If yours is digital, the method of interpreting noisy systems (yours is noisy) may cause less than reliable indication. Best of luck, JimN



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Tom43

01-25-2008 05:10:42




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
That is too much voltage. If allowed to continue, you will boil your battery dry and burn your ignition points with the extra current flow forced through them with the high voltage. you should be looking at around 7.3 volts for a charged battery.



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gene bender

01-25-2008 05:09:52




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
You didnt say does your lite sw have 4 positions and did you have if on hi-charge. If your generator is original type it would have the third brush adjustable for the charging rate. If the tractor isnt going to be used for many hrs at a time you will be finewith the rate it does now. Also do you have a mag or a dist? See if things are in shape it will start good on the 6v system.



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Randy in NE

01-25-2008 05:03:52




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
It is probably right in the ball park, maybe on the high side. You need more than 6 volts to be able to charge the battery. As long as it doesn't blow your light bulbs or boil the battery you will be ok. You would have to tweek the voltage regulator to drop the voltage. I wouldn't go below 8 volts. If you have a voltage gauge in your vehicle you will notice that it shows 14+ volts when the vehicle is running.

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IaGary

01-25-2008 05:01:47




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 Re: Negative Ground Part III - another question in reply to DanJ13655, 01-25-2008 04:59:15  
Just right.



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