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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Negative Ground?

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DanJ13655

01-24-2008 04:23:05




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OK, so it's a stupid message and I should know this already: I got a rusty ol' '44 H from a friend (for free!), and it looks awful but runs really great. Problem -- the fairly-new 6-volt battery has gone kaput. I know this tractor is supposed to be a positive ground, but it's presently hooked up with a negative ground. Seems to start OK this way (at least until the battery went to wet-cell heaven). So what do I do with this? What is needed to switch to a negative ground permanently? Is this the cause of early battery failure? Should I install a new battery with negative or positive ground?

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Brownie450

01-24-2008 16:29:25




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 Re: Negative Ground? in reply to DanJ13655, 01-24-2008 04:23:05  
Didn't see mention where to look for the pos/neg regulator info. If it is an original Delco, the 6V P or 6V N for Pos or neg ground should be stamped on one of the mounting tabs. Scrape off dirt & grease to see it.



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jk

01-24-2008 12:26:31




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 Re: Negative Ground? in reply to DanJ13655, 01-24-2008 04:23:05  
not to sound stupid, but are you sure its 6volt. my grandpa converted his old H to 12 volt, he changed the light bulbs, battery, coil, voltage regulator, and had the gen. converted to 12 volts, so with the battery cover on, it looked like a stock 6volt H. just my thoughts on the subject.



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John T

01-24-2008 08:26:17




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 Re: Negative Ground? in reply to DanJ13655, 01-24-2008 04:23:05  
If you swap polarity there may be some other issues.... If its a coil ignition the coils polarity should match the ground i.e. if at Pos the coils lil + wires to the distributor but if at Neg ground its lil - wires to distributor..... .. Re Polarize as Jim noted BEFORE YOU START IT..... .if the ammeter reads bass ackwards you need to swap its leads also.....

Id put it all back to the original Pos ground to avoid future issues.

John T

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Janicholson

01-24-2008 06:22:56




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 Re: Negative Ground? in reply to DanJ13655, 01-24-2008 04:23:05  
I'll add to gene's good advice:
Why not put it back to Pos ground.
Take the battery out of the tractor and try to charge it (make sure it has full cells) ad water as needed. Then put the battery in with Positive ground (cables may need to be switched so they match the post size) good 00 gauge cables are needed to carry the amp loads (take that info to the bank)
Once the battery is installed, with the tractor not started, and ignition off, do the polarizing thing.

For one second of time, use a #10 jumper wire to temporarily connect the BAT terminal on the VR to the ARM terminal on the VR . This (if the VR is connected) will polarize the field in the generator.

Then start it and it should charge.

If it does not, try this. With it running, use that jumper wire to connect the F terminal on the Generator (the smaller terminal) to a good ground. This should cause it charge. This test indicates a need for a voltage regulator, or more testing. John T has a great diagnosis procedure posted on this site in the search for box. Just type in John T charging system.
Bob M has wiring diagrams posted. Good luck, JimN Please keep us informed.

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DanJ13655

01-24-2008 13:00:51




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 Re: Negative Ground? in reply to Janicholson, 01-24-2008 06:22:56  
Thanks, I'll give this a try in a few minutes. The battery is absolutely dead -- my buddies at Advanced Auto Parts confirmed it for me. I'll also change it back to a positive ground, and will check the coil, voltage regulator and generator. No, to answer one of the questions you guys posed, it has not been changed to a 12-volt system. But if this gives me much more trouble, it sure as h*ll will!

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gene bender

01-24-2008 04:45:59




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 Re: Negative Ground? in reply to DanJ13655, 01-24-2008 04:23:05  
You mite have fried the regulator. Take it off and look on the bottom if ti has been replaced then look for a message as some will say pos gnd. If the original one is still there its probably shot as regs dont usually like the wrong polarity they were built for its the reverse current relay that ends up bad. I would charge the battery check the level with a hydrometer should read around 1260 on all three cells then polarize the system and start and see if the charging system works.

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DanJ13655

01-24-2008 04:54:38




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 Re: Negative Ground? in reply to gene bender, 01-24-2008 04:45:59  
Thanks -- I never thought about the regulator -- I know little about the regulator. The battery will not even charge up, and the tractor doesn't turn over (OK, maybe just a tiny bit) when I have the charger on it, on the "Engine Start" mode. The starter's good (I bench tested it). So, you're saying that I can make a positive ground if the regulator is a positive ground regulator?



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