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Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery

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Stones Throw Fa

01-07-2008 10:23:44

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Hi all...

I have a 1948 Super A that is mysteriously consuming hydraulic fluid?!

The tractor loses hydraulic fluid quite quickly. If I refill the reservoir-bleed the system-etc. I can operate the hydraulics with no problems for awhile. I don't notice any fluid coming out during operation. If I refill the reservoir and let the tractor sit I also don't notice any leaks. There seems to be a slight bit of weep at the base of the reservoir down below the drain plug. This is very light and I'm pretty certain has existed since I've owned the tractor.

Its my guess that the fluid has to be staying in the tractor but I don't know where?!

There are no major areas of fluid loss on the tractor.(a bit of weep/leakage around the oil pan is about it)

Has anyone encountered this or have any thoughts?

Could the fluid be ending up in the clutch housing tube or something....

Thanks for your consideration.

Brian

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mkirsch

01-08-2008 10:41:39

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to NDS, 01-07-2008 10:23:44

Super A, no offense, but that wisdom is far from "conventional." Sounds more like an old farmer's tale that got repeated so much it became "fact." Here's some logic:

HyTran is oil, and is somewhere between SAE10 and SAE30 in viscosity. How can it possibly be detrimenal to the engine in and of itself?

Working an engine hard on oil that's too thin can be a problem, yes.

Working an engine with an overfull crankcase can be a problem, yes.

Yes, CaseIH doesn't recommend using Hytran in an engine, but your engine is not going to grenade if you get a little in the crankcase due to a leaky pump.

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Super A

01-08-2008 12:15:51

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to mkirsch, 01-08-2008 10:41:39

Well, this info was from an expereienced mechanic. I don't think the intent was that it would grenade instantly, but it would be detrimental long-term, not to mention the problems that can come if you ran the crankcase over-full.

Hydraulic fluid is a much different animal than engine oil. Hy-Tran holds water and doesn't allow it to settle out. I could certainly see that being detrimental to an engine. Point is, it simply isn't good to have two totally different oils mixing.

Again, if Hy-Tran and other hydraulic fluids were good to use in the crankcase, it would say so on the label. Next time I'm at the caseIH dealer, I'll ask to be sure. I stand behind my original recommendation, if the pump is leaking into the crankcase, best to change the oil and fix the problem.

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Super A

01-08-2008 08:30:39

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to Stones Throw Farm, 01-07-2008 10:23:44

Conventional wisdom here has always been that hydraulic fluid from the Touch Control leaking into the crankcase via the hydraulic pump will lead to bearing failure and other unpleasantness in the engine, due to the fact the lighter hydraulic oil dilutes the engine oil.

IH originally recommended 10wt. oil in the Touch Control unit, later Hy-Tran. Today's replacement, Hy-Tran Ultra, is never recommended by caseIH to be used in an engine crankcase. You won't see any recommendations on a container of 'universal' tractor hydraulic fluid to use it in the crankcase either.

If I were you, I'd get that oil changed, and the hydraulic leak fixed, if you plan to run the tractor.

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El Toro

01-07-2008 14:23:43

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to Stones Throw Farm, 01-07-2008 10:23:44

NAPA should have a speedi sleeve & seal. Here's the parts breakdown. The old seal hardens with age and wears a groove. Hal

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Kristof

01-07-2008 10:50:09

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to Stones Throw Farm, 01-07-2008 10:23:44

The hydraulic oil won't hurt your engine one bit. On the contrary, I work caterpillar bulldozers everyday, and we're obligated to put engine oil on the hydraulic system. I would look for a new seal though... Because debry and little metal parts from your pump, valves etc. can hurt your engine quite a bit. The same thing occurd when I was working a D8.

Kind regards

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Stones Throw Farm

01-07-2008 13:38:38

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Thanks All! in reply to Kristof, 01-07-2008 10:50:09

Thanks everyone for the speedy and valuable info!

Engine oil level is definately up so it looks like I'll be pulling the pump and replacing the seals.

Thanks again...

Brian

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gene bender

01-07-2008 10:46:32

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to Stones Throw Farm, 01-07-2008 10:23:44

Your seal is bad on the pump. There were two . Pump types used and you wont know which until pump is removed. In the meantime just use same oil that you use in the engine. Removing the pump is easy. Now the journal where seal ride on the shaft mite need a speedy sleeve so the new seal can do its job.

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Andy Martin

01-07-2008 10:27:41

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to Stones Throw Farm, 01-07-2008 10:23:44

How's your oil level?

Pump seal leaks into the crankcase.

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mark

01-07-2008 10:36:25

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Re: Super A - Hydraulic Fluid Mystery in reply to Andy Martin, 01-07-2008 10:27:41

Just what I was going to say....hehe.....how often do you check your oil?

see there....an engine actually can run with hydraulic oil in the crankcase and no harm done! What you don"t know won"t hurt you...obviously!

as a side note.....ATF works great in your hydraulic reservoir.

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