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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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B-450's and 3 Point Hitches

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Harold H

01-02-2008 20:44:00




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In the new issue of "Red Power" the B-450 shown in the New Zeland article is a McCormick B-450 rather than a Farmall B-450, however this McCormick B-450 has the Farmall type rear axles and wheels. I have never before seen these axles pictured on a McCormick B-450 which is basicly an upgraded McCormick W-6 or Super W-6. Also in the same article the writer mentioned they purchased a 1952 Farmall BM with factory 3 point hitch and currently have a 1954 Farmall SBM with factory 3 point hitch. This shows IH had a good 3 point on its tractors many years in Europe before it was introduced in the USA.

Harold H

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Nat 2

01-04-2008 05:54:30




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Tom Windsor, 01-02-2008 20:44:00  
I've read on many occasions that the '06 series was ready to go in 1958. They could have completely skipped the 40-60 series tractors altogether, and pretty much killed everybody, including John Deere.

From my observations, it looks like IH was deathly afraid of pushing too much new technology out there at once. Just look at the period from 1952 through 1958. There were FIVE series of tractors (M, Super M, Super MTA, 400, 450) put out during that time, each with relatively minor improvements over the last. If IH had just gone from the M to the Super MTA to the 560 to the 806 in the same time period, they'd still be alive and kicking as an independent manufacturer, and the green guys would be buying their tractors at the CaseDeereNewHolland dealer.

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Hugh MacKay

01-04-2008 08:39:04




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Nat 2, 01-04-2008 05:54:30  
Nat: Amen to that, your absolutely correct, that British 3 point hitch could have fited right up to any of SM, SMTA, 400, 450 or 560. Rather than having changed sheet metal or decals every two years, we could have enjoyed that hitch and drawbar.

Like you, I've heard many times 06 was ready as early as 58, We know they had the hitch as early as 53. Someone at IH didn't earn their pay.



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Mike Farmer

01-03-2008 14:42:06




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Harold H, 01-02-2008 20:44:00  
By 1954 virtually everything sold in UK had a 3pt of some sort. Fordson 1947 onward.Fergusson about same time. BM and BMD and BWD6 1952/3. David brown 1953ish. No 3pt==No sell tractor. No doubt. MTF



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Keith-OR

01-02-2008 21:55:44




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Harold H, 01-02-2008 20:44:00  
Harold, I think you'll find that Ford and Ferguson held the patent rights on the 3pt hydraulic system in the US. And that is why IH could only sell their tractors with 3pt in overseas countries untill patent rights ran out.


Keith & Shawn(Special Olympic Champion)



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Hugh MacKay

01-03-2008 03:02:51




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Keith-OR, 01-02-2008 21:55:44  
Keith: Don't ever think they weren't paying royalties it Europe, Australia and New Zeland. In those countries it was have 3 point or you were not in the market.

Fast hitch was nothing more than an attempt to control the North American farm equipment market. Had they built quality into fast hitch, TA and IPTO, they might have pulled it off. Fast hitch on big tractors should have had an independent drawbar for trailing implements. TA should have been non free wheeling by the time 40-60 tractors were introduced. IH IPTO was a joke compared to Cockshutt and Oliver until 1963. Basically 10 years wasted, and those 3 items drove customers away in large numbers.

I used to do some business with a MF dealer, established in 1956. He claimed the best thing he had going for him as a start up dealer, trying to gain market share, was IH fast hitch, TA and IPTO. He told me that MF dealers across the continent were experiencing the same. In my imediate area MF, DB, JD, AC and Cockshutt all estabilshed successful dealerships during that 10 year period IH was flogging fast hitch. All these companies did have a presence prior to 1955, however they were little more than another business with a couple of tractors out front, and damn little parts backup. Prior to 1955, our IH dealer was a full time farm equipment business, with as many as 20 new and used tractor in inventory. They were well enough established, one could walk in and buy parts off the shelf for machines built prior to 1920. That parts supply was the biggest single reason why my family stuck with IH. Second reason, we were not using mounted equipment, thus hitch was not an issue right then.

I watched this progression of non IH dealers growing their business in leaps and bounds. Many of these guys were upstarts with very little capital behind them, yet they grew as IH went into decline. IH did gain back some market share with 06 and 56 series tractors, then after 1975 went into steady decline until they were gone in 1998. Today the MF dealer sells IH parts. The only other presence IH has is CNH. That is the results in my hometown, and if you travel much, there are like stories all across North America.

It doesn't matter how much a particular individual likes a certain make of tractor or equipment, if his neighbors aren't buying it, there will not be parts around in good supply. And if one made his living in this game of farming, equipment with a good parts supply was and still is extremely important.

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agpilot

01-03-2008 08:03:21




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-03-2008 03:02:51  
Hello Hugh: Thanks for the more detailed decades long view of the basic survival of the fittest over time. IHC may have had too many irons in the fire to come out the best in just the farm tractor race. Hard to make just the right decisions while the industry is changing. Survival of the fittest is a tough race to run. I'll have to get a couple books on the IHC history for some Winter reading. Thanks Hugh. agpilot

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georgeky

01-03-2008 08:03:08




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-03-2008 03:02:51  
Hugh, I have never had any TA or IPTO problems out of my old junk. Fasthitch on the 350 and 450 are loose and wobbly. 350 has original TA in it and still works perfectly. TA in 450 was out when I got it, but I will fix it one day. It would have been better to have had the newer version that holds back though. You are right about the fast hitch. IH thought they could control the implement market with it, and it backfired on them. If they had that fixed drawbar you mentioned it would have been a much better set up.

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Hugh MacKay

01-03-2008 16:13:21




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to georgeky, 01-03-2008 08:03:08  
George: my problem with free wheeling TA was hired operators. Never had a whole lot of problems with the TA, but I really didn't need to give all those senceless hours of lectures telling operators how to use it. I had John Deere power shift and 1066 which didn't free wheel, those didn't require driver schooling.

Until 1963, Cockshutt and Oliver had a IPTO far superior to IH, I also had one of those. I rebuilt the planetary unit on 300 3 or 4 times in 35 years. The 560 went through a PTO clutch pack every 2-3 years.

Had IH in the US used that B-450 rockshaft and put a B-450 type drawbar on tractors like 400, 450 and 560, I could have lived with fast hitch. Do you, (of course you do) realize how bad a fast hitch skins the shins when your foot slips. Our tractors required forward mounting. That over the hitch mounting is probably the biggest single factor making Ms, SMs SMTAs, 400s, 450, and 560s obselete.

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georgeky

01-03-2008 17:31:39




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-03-2008 16:13:21  
Yep, have slipped a foot off the things on many occasions.



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D Slater

01-03-2008 04:14:42




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to Hugh MacKay, 01-03-2008 03:02:51  
Hugh,since I never used one of those tractors I realy didn't want to mention this before, but since the subject keeps poping up here goes. From listening to some other tractor people in the south where the B tractors were sold, most reports to me are that the hitch with no draft control was not liked and that most thought the tractors were under powered. I have no first hand knowledge so just posting this in the hope of getting other opinions from others or past users.

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Harold H

01-03-2008 07:44:36




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to D Slater, 01-03-2008 04:14:42  
None of the B-450's we sold received any complaints about the 3 point hitch, primarly because it was so much better than the 2 point on the other IHC tractors. As to horsepower, it performed along with the USA 450's and compatible sized tractors as it was supposed to, but the Delta horsepower requirements soon outgrew the tractor, ie, the largest row crop available in any brand was the biggest seller in the Delta. You can't expect basicly a Super M to pull with a 806. Size, not design, is why they were short timers in the Southern USA market.

Harold H

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Hugh MacKay

01-03-2008 05:01:17




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 Re: B-450's and 3 Point Hitches in reply to D Slater, 01-03-2008 04:14:42  
Dave: I don't for one minute doubt what your saying. I really never saw a good draft control until the days of 06 and 56 series tractors. Sure Fergie and Ford had 3 point but the draft control was not great. It's all part of the evolution. Was fast hitch all bad, no, of course not, lower link sencing came from IH experience with fast hitch. Having said all of this, just maybe IH lower link sencing deserved more royalty than 3 point hitch itself.

We all know who won, Deere sat back and used Oliver's 6 cylinder, Cockshutt's IPTO, IH's TA, Ford's power shift, Ferguson's 3 point, IH's lower link sencing, Allis Turbo, etc.

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