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HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE

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SD FARMALL

01-02-2008 18:24:47




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I'm on the final part of my restoration, my dad started it fifteen years ago and got all the disassembling done, I started on it about six months ago, around every corner I keep trying to figure out what he had in mind with this pump or what he had done with this part. I have a pump that goes between the distributer and engine block, i want it to run the power steering assist cylinder that i put on the steering shaft. I was wandering if anyone could tell me if this pump is a positive or negative displacement type of pump? Actually all the information i could get on it would help. Thanks,

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Damp;Dservice

01-03-2008 20:07:06




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 18:24:47  
Hey sd farmall I am about 125 miles north of you near bison s.d., nice to see someone on the forum so close, Will be heading down your way to meet allan soon. welcome!!!



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SD FARMALL

01-03-2008 20:32:17




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to Damp;Dservice, 01-03-2008 20:07:06  
Thanks, it is pretty cool to hear from people in the same state, pretty cool the amount of knowledge that one can get from listening to the site! Nice to meet ya

Eric



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Charlink

01-03-2008 08:12:21




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 18:24:47  
Allan i Nebraska,
Are the pictures you have posted of the Char Lynn power steering motor from an H or a M? The reason I am asking is that I need to know if the wedge shaped spacer is needed on the M. I know it is needed for the correct alignment of the steering shaft on an H. Thanks.



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Allan In NE

01-03-2008 08:33:07




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to Charlink, 01-03-2008 08:12:21  
The pictures are from my H.

The wedge isn't needed on the M because the angle change isn't needed to point the shaft in the direction of that hole in the radiator. The torque motor just bolts directly to the plate.

Be glad you don't have to orient that wedge on the original plate. That was just an old fashioned bugger to get it "aimed" down and to the right, because it needs to set in there "cocked" at about 5 degrees from "plumb" and holes have to be drilled in the plate to mount the whole she-bang. :>(

Your M "should" just be a "bolt on" deal.

Allan

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Allan In NE

01-03-2008 04:32:54




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 18:24:47  
What you are really asking, is if you have a low pressure or high pressure pump.

I've never seen one, but from your pictures, the configuration appears that your pump is a M&W low pressure power steering pump.

Word on the street is that you don't need the priority valve. Dunno, like I say, I've never seen one.

Your "cylinder" is called a torque generator or torque motor, which appears as if it came off of a John Deere. If you're putting it on an M, you'll need the proper guage panel plate to properly mount it.

Also, it has both "in" and an "out" ports. Get the flow right and hook 'er up. Should work.

If the engine sounds like it is "laboring" and/or the steering "locks up", chances are the pump is a higher pressure pump and you'll need the priority valve.

Don't think so tho.

Allan

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SD FARMALL

01-03-2008 17:30:40




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to Allan In NE, 01-03-2008 04:32:54  
Alan,

Thanks for the help, and the pictures it is greatly appreciated, as for the plate I already have it, and mounted it on the tractor.

It is a 201p M&W, do you know what does the P stand for? I'm hoping Power Steering but that seems like it would be to easy!

Again Thanx much,

Eric



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Allan In NE

01-04-2008 06:05:03




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-03-2008 17:30:40  
I've been told that the 201P was M&W's version of a simple low pressure power steering pump.

Just simply don't know, as I don't use the M&W stuff.

Hope ya get 'er figured out.

Allan



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Bob

01-02-2008 19:31:08




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 18:24:47  
NEGATIVE DISPLACMENT PUMP???? WHAT????



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SD FARMALL

01-02-2008 19:39:54




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to Bob, 01-02-2008 19:31:08  
Sorry Bob,
Didn't mean to insult anyone non-positive displacement pump, keep running your keyboard and if you don't want to help don't



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CityBoy-McCoy

01-03-2008 02:57:35




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 Re: Hydraulic Pump in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 19:39:54  
I think Bob was trying to understand better, so he could possibly help you. mike



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SD FARMALL

01-03-2008 04:06:59




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 Re: Hydraulic Pump in reply to CityBoy-McCoy, 01-03-2008 02:57:35  
understandable, The way bob wrote his first time made it look different, didn't want to offend anyone to include Bob, wrote back and clarified differences between non-positive and positiv



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Bob

01-02-2008 20:59:02




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 19:39:54  
I'm STILL trying to figure out what you mean!



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SD FARMALL

01-02-2008 21:15:00




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to Bob, 01-02-2008 20:59:02  
All pumps may be classified as either positive-displacement or non-positive-displacement. Most pumps used in hydraulic systems are positive-displacement.

A non-positive-displacement pump produces a continuous flow. However, because it does not provide a positive internal seal against slippage, its output varies considerably as pressure varies. Centrifugal and propeller pumps are examples of non-positive-displacement pumps.

If the output port of a non-positive-displacement pump were blocked off, the pressure would rise, and output would decrease to zero. Although the pumping element would continue moving, flow would stop because of slippage inside the pump.

In a positive-displacement pump, slippage is negligible compared to the pump's volumetric output flow. If the output port were plugged, pressure would increase instantaneously to the point that the pump's pumping element or its case would fail (probably explode, if the drive shaft did not break first), or the pump's prime mover would stall.

The main reason I want to know this (if i'm even understanding the difference correctly) is do i need to get a valve to reduce pressure to run it straight to my assist cylinder or can I run the risk of hooking it straight up without blowing the pump, I have the belly pump that runs a Cross three point, and want this pump to run only my power steering, I did find out that it is an M&W.

Thanks

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glennster

01-02-2008 18:54:02




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 18:24:47  
i am going to take a guess and say you are probably working on an h or m. the most common aftermaket power steering kits available were the char-lynn and the behlen set ups. the char lynn had a pump that ran off the generator belt. the behlen pump mounted directly behind the distributor. it replaces the small housing so in effect you could run the i-h live pump, then the behlen pump, then the distributor. the torque generator mounted in the steering shaft as did the char-lynn. with a priority flow valve, you can run the char-lynn from the i-h live pump. the behlen was pretty much all self contained. there is some posts a few pages back, scan for behlen power steering, as somebody posted pictures of their set up.

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Andrew Z

01-02-2008 18:37:55




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 18:24:47  
Whats the Tractor here??

Andrew



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SD FARMALL

01-02-2008 19:10:36




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to Andrew Z, 01-02-2008 18:37:55  
its an m tractor sorry forgot to put that in there, the pump that i have sits in between the distributer and engine block, it has an inlet and outlet that come out of the top i'll go take some pictures and post them, my hydrolic experience isn't great.



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GordoSD

01-02-2008 19:22:48




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 19:10:36  
From your name I guess you are in SD. Where? I have some Charlynn parts and can maybe help Email is open

Gordo ( in Mitchell)



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SD FARMALL

01-02-2008 19:34:54




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to GordoSD, 01-02-2008 19:22:48  
Yes i'm from New Underwood, the tractor I'm working on is an M that my dad got from Huron, SD he always wanted to get it done but one thing or another happend I put it back together in the last six months after it was split for fifteen years, I think I have the parts I need for the most part, my hope is that I can run this pump to the assist to the reservoir and back to the pump, in a perfect world it would work but I don't want to blow anything out either.

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CNKS

01-02-2008 19:20:50




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to SD FARMALL, 01-02-2008 19:10:36  
you have an M&W live pump that runs the hydraulics or lift mechanism. It is used in place of the clutch actuated "belly pump" in the clutch housing in front of the transmission.



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Allan In NE

01-03-2008 05:25:57




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to CNKS, 01-02-2008 19:20:50  
Charles,

How do you tell the difference between the "live pump" and the power steering pump on those M&Ws?

Just the model number of the pump?

Those things scare me.

Allan



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CNKS

01-03-2008 18:16:40




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to Allan In NE, 01-03-2008 05:25:57  
I plead ignorance--I have an M with Charlyn power steering and and M&W live pump for my 3 point. I did not know M&W made a power steering pump.



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SD FARMALL

01-02-2008 19:30:37




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 Re: HYDROLIC PUMP BETWEEN DISTRIBUTER AND ENGINE in reply to CNKS, 01-02-2008 19:20:50  
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I'm trying to upload a couple of pictures one of the pump and one of the assist cylinder. My big question is will it work to run the pump straight to the cylinder or will i have to get a valve that reduces the pressure?

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