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bristish mta

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Pat-CT

12-28-2007 11:16:22

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whats the british version of the smta and how much would one in perect condition (taken down in solvent tanks) be worth

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GertM

12-29-2007 14:48:46

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

A Britisch "Super BMTA" doesn't exist.An Super MTA and Super MD are not comparable just by placing an B in the name.
On no Brtisch tractor was an Torque Amplifier mounted.
The clutch and flywheel were different as from an M and more heavy duty type.

Three point hitch was an option.Standard the Super BMD's were mounted with the same draw bar as an M.
Happyly I posses a Super BMD that had all thinkable options out of France witch was the most important market for Farmall that time.
Also a three point hitch thta was feeded withc pressure to a double working cylinder.My Super BMD can lift itself up.Easy for tyre change.....

Casting of rear end are on some point different but mostly M.The lid is real different subjekt and really different.

Belt pulley drive only can be mounted from an USA MD with an "corner"out of the housIng because of long Lucas starter engine.

Has mostly to do with the 3 point hitch that could be attached.
They came out of France to Belgium for hobbypurposes.PurcHased it in 2005.

Company called Roadless deliverd afternarket 4WD kit but was only for the later models NOT,discontinued 1959,Farmall shaped B-450 witch were made till 1970.

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Mike Farmer

12-29-2007 12:06:58

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Hugh. As far as I recall all the BMDs left the factory with 3pt Hitch thats 1953 onward. No Photo at present but I have a friend with several BMDs so will try to take a couple for you. Draft control? don't know.I shall be out of country for about three months so you may have a bit of a wait.MTF

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Hugh MacKay

12-29-2007 12:17:11

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-29-2007 12:06:58

Mike: Thanks.

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Harold H

12-29-2007 12:04:37

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Hugh,

The rear end casting on the Farmall B-450 was basicly the same as the casting of a M or SM. However the top was completely different. The rock shaft and lift arms were built in simular to the Farmall 656 rather than seperate add on as the 450 or 560 used.

Richard,

The Farmall B-450 was imported to the Memphis District which served the Mississippi and Arkansas Delta areas because most of the tractors in this area were operated by tractor drivers rather than owner operators and received hard use , often with little continuing or preventive maintenance. At the time IH changed from the Farmall 450's to the six cylinder 560's with more complicated systems, many farm owners wanted a simple new tractor in the same horsepower range, thus IH offered the Farmall version of the B-450 to the South and Texas only. They performed excellently but they were soon made obsolute by size on the large farming operations, ie 806, etc.

Harold H

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Mike Farmer

12-29-2007 03:24:02

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Please ignore my last post I've now put it on the photo gallery (more photos) got there at last MTF

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Hugh MacKay

12-29-2007 04:07:05

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Mike Farmer, 12-29-2007 03:24:02

Mike: Do you have any good rear photos showing the factory 3 point hitch as used on Super BMD and B-450. I've seen many photos of BM, BMD, Super BMD and B-450 over the years, but never one that high lighted the 3 point hitch. I realize 3 point was not standard or optional on the early models.

Most of my info on these came from a Yorkshire man that imigrated to Canada. During the first 3 years, I had great trouble understanding his Yorkshire English and by that time we had covered the British Farmalls. I had always assumed the 3 point hitches he used as a farmer in England were his own fabrication. It wasn't until I came to YT, I learned these were factory 3 point hitches. Were they a draft controlled hitch? If so, was it top link or lower link sencing? When did these hitches become a reality?

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Mike Farmer

12-29-2007 02:58:58

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

If any one wants a pic of the gold BMD email me on this and I'll email one to you.Last time I put it on here it took up half the forum. Thats the prehistoric coming out in me. MTF

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Harold H

12-28-2007 19:58:11

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

The Farmall B-450 was the same wheelbase as the Farmall M. The B-450 was not available with TA. It was standard with a 3 point hitch. The B-450 did have the starting crank adaptor sticking out the front, but I don't know how you could have actually started this direct start diesel with a crank. The B-450 was a very good, reliable, simple tractor that was sold only in the South and in Texas in the USA.

Harold H

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richardinnz

12-28-2007 18:05:38

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Those tractors (B450) were in production right up to 1970, I think this was a while after the U.S. had ceased to produce this style of Farmall, I can hear it running now, like lead shot being injected on to a tin roof! Can't understand why there is a starting handle rod sticking out the front as these tractors were only ever fitted with the BD264 Diesel engine, there was no petrol engine option. I did a restoration job on one, and that did not have the starting handle rod, but it was the McCormick Standard version, and a U.K. sold tractor, not the Farmall version shown here. The wheelbase for that tractor is 89 1/8" what does the U.S. 'M' tractors measure up at?

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Hugh MacKay

12-29-2007 04:15:03

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Re: bristish mta in reply to richardinnz, 12-28-2007 18:05:38

Richard: Make note of my responce to Mike this morning. I've heard a lot of info on these British Farmalls but have never seen a good close up shot of that 3 point hitch.

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georgeky

12-28-2007 19:24:14

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Re: bristish mta in reply to richardinnz, 12-28-2007 18:05:38

Wheel base for American M is the same. SMTA was a few inches longer. As far as I know the B-450 was not available with the TA. Correct me if I am wrong, but with that short wheel base there wasn't room for the TA unit. So there was not a British version of the SMTA. I sure would like to have a BMB or B-450

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richardinnz

12-29-2007 01:08:50

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Re: bristish mta in reply to georgeky, 12-28-2007 19:24:14

I have had a look at the parts book for a B450 and there is no T/A option, front pto, 4WD, low 1st gear, 10mph 4th gear, even yellow paint option, but no T/A. Looking at the picture of the clutch housing you can see it is shorter than the similar part on my H tractor, no need for a lift-all because they had a camshaft driven Dowty hydraulic pump, I would think that the BD264 engine was longer than the petrol version so they made the clutch housing shorter to keep the wheelbase the same. The Diesel engine was a long stroke slow revver, the one I restored would go up any hill in top gear, boy would that thing pull! I don't really understand why they were sent to the U.S. as they would have been an out of date tractor compared with what the U.S produced, I have seen more of them since I have been living in New Zealand than I did in England, but then again New Zealand got the lot, American, British, Aussie, French and German Internationals, there is really some variety down here!

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Hugh MacKay

12-29-2007 02:39:08

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Re: bristish mta in reply to richardinnz, 12-29-2007 01:08:50

Richard: Harold H can give more info on the southern US importation. He was a dealer in the south at that time. It happened in the early 60s.

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richardinnz

12-28-2007 15:10:56

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

There was no British MTA, or BMTA as it would have been called. There was, at first British assembled Ms, then Bitish made Ms (BM) and MD, (BMD) but this used a direct start, indirect injection Diesel, and then the Super BMD and Super BM. For standard tractors there was the Super BW6, and the Super BWD6 , they were replaced by the B450, but there were Farmall B450 AND McCormick B450 variants to replace the M and W series respectfully. The rare one is the Super BW6 with only 275 tractors built. There were also tracklayers, the BTD6 and BTD8 etc with the BTD20 (which used a Rolls - Royce diesel) topping the range. There is a good book by Mike Teanby called 'The Roar of Dust and Diesel' which gives a good account of I.H. (Great Britian) Ltd production at the 2 Doncaster tractor plants, with a bit on the Bradford tractor plant aswell. Don't forget that I.H. also produced tractors in Austrailia like the AW6, as well as in Europe. (France and Germany) Harvesters were a huge company! The 50 or so gold painted Super BMD tractors were to celibrate the Cornination of Her Majesty The Queen in 1953.

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Pat-CT

12-28-2007 14:30:58

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

there is one in the shop where one of my friends work it must have been a britcsh super m or something with a ta put on it the guy that owns the shop says its worth nearly 30000$

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Mike Farmer

12-28-2007 14:03:28

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Hi Rusty, what you say could well be true. My knowledge of the B450 is next to zilch. If the 450 was a 'TA' then you are right but I think that would make it the equivilant of an SMDTA????? cos the B450 was never a gas engine etc. Like I said "I Believe" MTF

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Hugh MacKay

12-28-2007 14:00:09

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Pat: If you want to become more familiar with European Farmalls, check a site called Les Tractuer Rouges. There never was a British SMTA.

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Mike Farmer

12-28-2007 12:51:54

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Hi before trying to answer your questions I would point out that I do not pretend to be an authority or an expert on the British Farmalls. So anything I say starts with 'I believe'.
I have no knowledge of the MTA ever being produced in England. At the time of the TA series Doncaster was producing the BMD that was discussed in some detail recently. This was followed by the B450. Of the BMDs the most sought after model is the limited addition one painted gold in 1953. These are rare as in theory there were only 53 made. To get one of those stripped to bare metal and resprayed would be a joke because probably no one knows exactly what colour it was to start with. And so the story goes. Please bear in mind that when a circle of friends debate something like this there are as many opinions as there are people in the circle and if someone denies everything i've said, well fine their opinion is as good as mine and I can live with it.MTF

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Andy Motteberg

12-28-2007 11:56:18

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Pat-CT, 12-28-2007 11:16:22

Do you have a british SMTA?

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RustyFarmall

12-28-2007 13:13:20

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Andy Motteberg, 12-28-2007 11:56:18

Please don't quote me on this, but I think the B450 is the equivelant of the SMTA. If I remember right, the B450 and the SMTA have the same sheetmetal and appearance.

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Bob M

12-28-2007 14:38:30

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Re: bristish mta in reply to RustyFarmall, 12-28-2007 13:13:20

Rusty - Here's a nicely restored B450 at a show here (Western NY Gas & Steam Association) last summer. Indeed closely resembles an SMD/SMTA-D only with a different, direct-start diesel engine.

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Hugh MacKay

12-29-2007 04:23:37

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Bob M, 12-28-2007 14:38:30

Bob: have you got any closeup shots of that 3 point hitch. Kind of curious, just how sophisticated it is. Does it use the same rear casting as US tractors, etc. How close is that B-450 hitch rockshaft to 450 or 560 fast hitch rockshaft?

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chuck46

12-28-2007 15:46:17

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Bob M, 12-28-2007 14:38:30

Bob, That looks like a crank stub on the front, who could crank a direct start? SUPERMAN? Chuck

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Hugh MacKay

12-28-2007 20:20:27

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Re: bristish mta in reply to chuck46, 12-28-2007 15:46:17

Chuck: My 560 diesel came with a crank hole through the bolster and crank nut on the front end of crank shaft, but no crank. Young lads I had working for me were always kidding around about who was able enough to crank start the 560.

I told them I had a crank, and we'd get it out some morning they showed up a bit hung over from too much party.

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chuck46

12-28-2007 21:01:16

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Hugh MacKay, 12-28-2007 20:20:27

Hi Hugh, I was surprised by this, the 350D came with just an empty hole. I never saw anthing like an H or M in Germany, they were all the small utility style. I was near the Czech border, not a real prosperous farming area. Was drafted in 65 for the Viet Nam build up, thank God all my life I was sent to Germany instead, it was a good experience for a young man with many lifelong lessons. Chuck

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georgeky

12-28-2007 15:03:12

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Re: bristish mta in reply to Bob M, 12-28-2007 14:38:30

"Only with a different Direct start diesel"

And factory 3 point hitch, and no TA. notice the front end is the old style M bolster and the shorter distance between bell housing and rear end.

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richardinnz

12-29-2007 01:10:58

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Re: bristish mta in reply to georgeky, 12-28-2007 15:03:12

Hi George, see my reply above, I put it in the wrong place!

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