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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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practical advice on shimming H differential

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riverbend

12-12-2007 00:06:28




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Today's the big day. I think I have all the parts to put the rearend back together. The manual goes into great detail, but is a little light on pratical ideas for guys who are not service techs.

Is finding the vertex of the pitch cone centers all controlled by shimming the pinion ? It seems like the backlash or centering of the differential would affect that too.

It also seems impractical to remove the drive pinion from the transmission to add and remove shims to get a feel for high and low tooth contact. Is the a work around for this ? How close to center is close enough ?

Any other advice ?

Thanks

Greg

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Randy S.E.-MN

12-13-2007 05:33:52




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 Re: practical advice on shimming H differential in reply to riverbend, 12-12-2007 00:06:28  
I have learned in doing three of them, that, if you are re-using the old ring and pinion gears, be prepared for alot of gear whine for some time. Your old gears remained quiet, gradually wearing into their present contact pattern. By changing that pattern in going back to original "tight" specs you are going to end up with gears trying to establish a new contact pattern...and belive me...it takes "awhile" for that whine to go away...Randy

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Roger46

12-12-2007 19:28:33




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 Re: practical advice on shimming H differential in reply to riverbend, 12-12-2007 00:06:28  
It is a pain to do this alignment job. I would say it is easier on an H than on the Cub. I just replaced the transmission case on my Cub (bottom was broken out and epoxied back together) and with the roller bearings you first need to set the bearing preload and then work on backlash and correct tooth contact. I think I took the pinion gear out at least 6 times and maybe 4 or 5 for the differntial. It took me one whole evening. It is important to get it correct; because it will damage the gears if it is not. I always wondered how they did it at the factory. Also, as someone else said, make sure the differential is all the way to the right. I just put together my 350 diesel rear end and the gears meshed real tight until I pryed the whole thing over to take out any play. Good luck. Roger

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riverbend

12-12-2007 14:35:31




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 Re: first try shimming H differential in reply to riverbend, 12-12-2007 00:06:28  
It looks like there is contact most of the way along the toe of the pinion tooth, but no backlash. Tomorrow I'll move a shim from the right side over to the left side.

I don't see any good way to measure the backlash. It seems like the differential is in the way of getting a feeler gauge into the contact point. What did the IH guys use to measure backlash ?

Greg



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Big Hunter

12-12-2007 15:28:39




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 Re: first try shimming H differential in reply to riverbend, 12-12-2007 14:35:31  
I think it's called a dial caliper. has a magnetic base you set onto something stationary and has a meter with a pin sticking out of it, you place the pin touching the tooth ot the ring gear push a button to zero out the meter then turn the ring gear, it will tell you how much play you have between the ring gear and the pinion shaft gear



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riverbend

12-12-2007 16:07:48




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 Re: first try shimming H differential in reply to Big Hunter, 12-12-2007 15:28:39  
This is why I ask for advice. I'll have to pull my dial indicator out of the drawer. So simple.

Thanks

Greg



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Theman

12-12-2007 08:45:19




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 Re: practical advice on shimming H differential in reply to riverbend, 12-12-2007 00:06:28  
Being a straight bevel gear makes setting up this fit much easier. The service manual for the H emphasizes two things: backlash and alignment at the back (wide) edges of the tooth contact area. There are paragraphs about "heel" and "toe" but not being hypoid, you can't really do a lot about it. When putting my '51 H back together, a shim was taken from under the right side and put under the left side cage to bring down the backlash. Since the ring gear was moved perpendicular to the pinion gear, contact points weren't affected at either edge of the teeth. If you decide to measure the backlash, be sure to take all of the slack out of the differential carrier assembly to the right because load forces will always press in that direction.

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Big Hunter

12-12-2007 05:49:51




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 Re: practical advice on shimming H differential in reply to riverbend, 12-12-2007 00:06:28  
I don't know about a farmall but the allis chalmers I have goes like this...that is if I understand your question...The main transmission pinion shaft can only move forward or rearward, my tractor has a measurement stamped on the housing that tells what the pinion mounting dimension is (center of differential to pinion mounting) if new bearings, pinion shaft and ring gear set is used you have take the bearing measurement, the pinion mounting dimension and the housing dimension and calculate what size snap ring is the right size according to a chart provided in the sevice manual. That sets the main transmission pinion shaft in the correct to or fro position. THEN with a few too many shims you install the differential with the same carriers as was in there, torque the carrier opposite the ring gear to spec's, then install ring gear side carrier and slowly torque to spec's to end up with a bearing preload that is spec'ed, by adding or taking out shims, so it takes whatever amount of pounds that is spec'ed to spin the differential, that tells you what the preload is. THEN take the differential out put pinion shaft in then put differential in with the same shims, starting on the opposite side of ring gear, torque to spec, then go to ring gear side slowly torque until you get spec'ed backlash at pinion and ring, if to much or little move shims from one side to the other to get correct backlash. you should end up with the correct pinion position, bearing preload, and backlash. BUT like I said this is for a allis chalmers. Maybe this will help. Just read your book and think it though.

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GordoSD

12-12-2007 02:15:10




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 Re: practical advice on shimming H differential in reply to riverbend, 12-12-2007 00:06:28  
There are metal shims available for the axle housings. Install between the axle housing and tranny case when installing axles.

Gordo



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MN Scott

12-12-2007 07:35:58




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 Re: practical advice on shimming H differential in reply to GordoSD, 12-12-2007 02:15:10  
Shims go between differental bearing carriers and frame. New shims are no longer availble from the dealer so if you need more than you have you have to find used ones. I would start by putting the shims you took out in the same position and then checking the tooth pattern. Since you are reusing the same gears you most liklly will be very close.



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