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good news and bad news

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Nebraska Kirk

12-11-2007 12:53:32

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The good news is that I finally finished installing powersteeing on my M :-)

third party image

The bad news is that the battery is dead on the M and the battery charger quit a few days ago :-(

I suppose that I could jump it or swap a battery out of my truck, but that would entail knocking the ice off of my truck so that I could see out the window and open the hood :-( For some reason I am not feeling that ambitious today.

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ChrisAS

12-12-2007 08:31:38

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

That unite can be set up to run right off the IH live hyd pump without prioity valve if a relief valve is put in ahead of the power steering unite and set at 1200 psi. Did this on many M's SM's 400's SMTA's. Works good still gave good hydraulics and good steering.

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CenTexFarmall

12-11-2007 22:23:10

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

I have almost the same setup, except that the reservoir is built onto the steering motor. My problem is that the special vented filler cap managed to vibrate out while I was plowing.

Anyone know where you can get parts for these things?

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gots-2-go

12-11-2007 20:30:43

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

I went out to the shop and got out all of my Behlen power steering service manuals (3), and read each twice to see if I could find any info for the pressure rating of your pump.

Neither has any pressure info listed.

Only one of them had anything listed about a pump, it read: �The Behlen #201 pump is recommended to be used with the Behlen Power Assisted Steering, it is factory set to operate at 3.25 gpm�.

If your pump is a #201 it will be stamped on the flat area as noted below:

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Nebraska Kirk

12-12-2007 12:48:54

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to gots-2-go, 12-11-2007 20:30:43

Yes, it has "Behlen 201" stamped in that place.

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Bob Kerr

12-11-2007 19:19:04

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

This is simillar to the set up on my M. I have the behlen pump and motor, and an IH remote valve. The way mine is set up is the pump goes to the motor and then down to the remote valve and then to the res tank. My res tank has a diesel bleed valve in the cap. I had a few issues with it this summer, like the steering locking up once in a great while, steering not working unless RPM was up way above idle, seals started leaking on the motor. It also blew a hose while trying to lift a heavy log and it has the "red fitting" about 5-6 inches long on the motor like yours has. There was a spring inside the fitting but that is it. Is there more stuff that goes in there like a ball and seat? This set up has been on here for years and the belly pump is not connected to anything. It has 3 point one cyl hitch on back.

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NDS

12-11-2007 15:15:06

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

I will second the good to go comment. that is a complete set up and pump is sized just for steering motor have ran one exactly like it for hundreds of hours and it worked good.

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CityBoy-McCoy

12-11-2007 17:40:19

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to NDS, 12-11-2007 15:15:06

I have a set up, including the exact same pump, just like Nebraska Kirk's and it works fine. That pump is made for the power steering system and produces the correct amount of pressure. It is not higher pressure pump for a live hydraulic system. mike durhan

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gots-2-go

12-11-2007 15:05:58

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

I don't belive that there is anythng wrong with that setup at all.

The pump you are using is a "Behlen #201", it is only rated for 3.25 gal per minute (this info is from one my Behlen Power Steering Manuals).

The small hydraulic tank was also manfactured by the Behlen company for use with these setups, and it holds about 1 1/2 to 2 gallons of oil.

There are a lot of them around my area that are mounted on the Farmall H's & M's and the John Deere A's & B's.

I have the #201 pumps mounted on the following farmalls, and have never had any problems with any of them:

#1. 54 SMTA with a Behlen tank & Char-lynn motor.

#2. 53 SM with a Behlen tank & Char-lynn motor.

#3. 41 H with a Behlen tank & Behlen motor.

#4. 46 H with a 10 gal frame mounted tank that supplys both the #201 pump which is bolted to a "M&W" pump. The #201 pump is used to operate the Char-lynn power steering motor ONLY, while the "M&W" pump runs both a Saginaw 3 point hitch along with a McCormick #31 loader.

The 46 H is at my uncles place, and is used just about every day for something.

Those pumps usually fetch a "GOOD" price, whenever you find someone that is willing to part with one.

The usual selling range for a #201 that gets listed on ebay runs around $175 to $300.

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Nebraska Kirk

12-11-2007 15:19:21

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to gots-2-go, 12-11-2007 15:05:58

That is what I thought. Thanks for confirming that. You are right about the GOOD price! I have seen 3 or 4 sell recently on ebay for around $285.

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gots-2-go

12-11-2007 15:32:20

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 15:19:21

YEP, I just bought one last week for my son as a christmas present.

After driving all of my tractors, he said that he wanted power steering on his 50 M.

The guy I have gotten power steering parts from is named Roger Roland, and I have found him to be a man of his word without question.

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Allan In NE

12-11-2007 14:28:58

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

DON'T START IT!

Get a priority valve in the circuit first or you're going to ruin that steering motor!

At the very least, it will lock the steering up tight.

You only want 3-3 1/2 gallons going to the steering. If you don't want to run a priority valve, then you must use a low volume auto-type pump run off the crankshaft pulley.

Allan

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gots-2-go

12-11-2007 15:54:43

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Allan In NE, 12-11-2007 14:28:58

Allan, You are 1000% correct about only wanting about 3 to 3 1/2 gal per min to run a power steering motor. (I learned the HARD way) I busted the end off of a Char-lynn motor that was running off of an "M&W" live pump that was on the 46 H. I replaced the motor and installed a #201 pump up to the "M&W" pump and have had no problems since.

What Kirk has my dad always called a "Stand Alone" power steering setup.

I don't care for the belt driven side mounted Char-lynn pumps. I am not saying anything bad about those pumps, others use them and seem to like them a lot.

I enjoy reading your post, and have gotten a lot of good info from you by doing so. How's the Gleaner comming along?

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Nebraska Kirk

12-11-2007 14:58:42

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Allan In NE, 12-11-2007 14:28:58

Ok, now I am really confused. I have seen several Behlen powersteering systems, setup just like mine is, sell on ebay with no mention of a priority valve included or needed Link

I>Link have also seen several Super MTAs and Super MTA diesels with an IH or M&W live hydraulic pump and ALSO this same Behlen 201 pump third party image mounted between the live hyd. pump and the distributer, hooked up for powersteering EXACTLY the same way I did mine.

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gots-2-go

12-11-2007 15:24:31

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 14:58:42

I had to use a Delco 90 degree dist. on my 46 H with this pump, and it is bolted up to an "M&W" live pump as well.

On the 41 H, 53 SM, & 54 SMTA I was able to use the horz. dist., but the plug wires are close to the oil filter canister on each of them.

The 53 SM and the 54 SMTA both have the IH live pumps on each of them as well.

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Steven f/AZ

12-11-2007 14:21:35

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

I haven't a clue what that pump is rated for flow, but you should put a pressure relief valve in there somewhere.

Too much pressure and running the steering to the lock could end up cracking the case of the PS torque motor and/or the pump case.

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Armand Tatro

12-11-2007 14:11:56

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

Are you still using the belly pump for your remote valve? If so why did you not remove the belly pump from its housing, convert the housing into a tank, forget about the add-on tank, and add a flow control valve that would send 21/2 gal. to the PS and the rest to your remote valve than into the belly tank? Armand

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Nebraska Kirk

12-11-2007 14:40:39

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Armand Tatro, 12-11-2007 14:11:56

Because this is supposed to be a totally self-contained powersteering system, totally seperate from the belly pump.

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Allan In NE

12-11-2007 14:43:30

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 14:40:39

Does that pump say somewhere on it that it's only rated for low pressure?

Guess I've heard of those stand-alone systems, but I was under the impression that they all ran off of a belt to the crankshaft.

Dunno,

Allan

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NDS

12-11-2007 15:22:53

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Allan In NE, 12-11-2007 14:43:30

Allen the Char????? systems used the belt driven pumps.

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ChrisAS

12-11-2007 13:19:27

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

Do you have a relief valve on the pressure side, you can split that steering unit wide open if to much pressure can build.

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Nebraska kirk

12-11-2007 13:29:15

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to ChrisAS, 12-11-2007 13:19:27

I am useing a Behlen powersteering pump, I believe that a pressure relief valve is build into it. Maybe someone who knows more about this can confirm this.

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georgeky

12-11-2007 13:59:10

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska kirk, 12-11-2007 13:29:15

There is no relief valve in that unit. One is required or you will ruin it. You need the flow control valve or priority flow valve. That unit only requires 2 1/2 to 3 GPM to operate. Your pump is likely pumping 10 to 12 GPM at 12 to 1500 PSI. The steering unit won't stand all that. Google Char Lynn or OEM and you can buy a priority flow valve for it.

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gots-2-go

12-11-2007 16:26:16

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to georgeky, 12-11-2007 13:59:10

George,

If I remember right the best price I found for priority valves was on the "Norhtern" site, they have both the adjustable and pre-set types listed.

I think that the pre-set one run around $55 to $65 a few years ago.

Used it on my brothers SMTA to operate the power steering, his tractor had a IH live pump on it.

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georgeky

12-11-2007 22:16:11

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to gots-2-go, 12-11-2007 16:26:16

Hey Bruce. I didn't notice he had a steering pump only. I believe it will work like it is after learning that. I thought when I looked at the pic he had the M&W pump. Got that seat rigged up for that boy to ride on yet?

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Nebraska Kirk

12-11-2007 14:32:08

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to georgeky, 12-11-2007 13:59:10

George, are you sure that that little Behlen pump will put out 10-12GPM? This is not an IH or M&W hydraulic pump. If I understand correctly, this pump was made to go with the Behlen torque unit, and provides only enough flow to operate the powersteering. I seen these pumps alone bring close to $300 on ebay.

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georgeky

12-11-2007 14:52:37

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 14:32:08

Kirk, I do not know that. It could be so. I assumed you were running a regular live pump. If it is for steering only it may work, but I would sure make sure first. My Blue Ribbon manual doesn't show that pump.

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CenTexFarmall

12-11-2007 22:17:49

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to georgeky, 12-11-2007 14:52:37

Georgeky, I have an almost identical setup on my '50 M, (except the resevoir is attached to the p.s. motor) and there is no priority valve. It works fine. I think that particular pump is intended just for the p.s.

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BOBM25

12-11-2007 18:14:31

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to georgeky, 12-11-2007 14:52:37

I tend to agree. That looks alot like a live hydraulic pump. I could also be wrong. It would be the first setup like that I have seen. I would just make sure, Kirk. Maybe not starting for you today is a blessing in disguise.

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gots-2-go

12-11-2007 19:37:32

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to BOBM25, 12-11-2007 18:14:31

BobM25 you are right, it is a live pump.

It's a "Behlen" model #201.

I have three different Behlen manuals, BUT neither one of them has any presssure rating info for the #201 pump listed. One manual does state that the #201 is rated for 3.25 gal per minute.

It might be able to run a loader or 3 point hitch, but they may operate somewhat slow with that gpm rating.

I've had great service using these little pumps for power steering, thou I've never tried to use them for anything else.

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El Toro

12-11-2007 13:17:36

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska Kirk, 12-11-2007 12:53:32

The battery may have enough voltage for the ignition if you can hand crank it. I like your hydraulic hoses. Hal

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Nebraska kirk

12-11-2007 13:24:55

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to El Toro, 12-11-2007 13:17:36

I tried hand cranking it, but no go. I got it to pop once, but that was it. This engine has about 30 hours on a COMPLETE rebuild and does not hand crank very good :-) I"ll bet I could hand crank start it with little trouble if I had a magneto on it. My "42 H has a mag and I can crank start it in 3 or 4 half turns of the crank :-)

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El Toro

12-12-2007 04:02:34

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Re: good news and bad news in reply to Nebraska kirk, 12-11-2007 13:24:55

You probably don't have enough battery voltage for the ignition. If you had a mag that was in good shape it would fire. We had a 10-20 and it had a big engine,but would crank and start easily. Hal
PS: I have a 7.5w generator that has a 12 volt dc charging plug, but I've never had to use it.

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