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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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OT...Insulation

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Dave2

11-26-2007 12:23:25




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Sorry folks, but I figure I can get some worthwhile answers from this group. Here goes... It's getting that time of year. It doesn't get much colder than about 15 degrees F. here in this area. I've got to run a water line above ground to the stalls behind the barn. I need to insulate them for obvious reasons but can't find a chart (if one exists) to tell me what I need to protect to what temp. I'm looking at a 1/2 to 3/4 inch plastic line and have the option of foam shafts about an inch thick to using rock wool or fiberglass insulation to wrap it. I also need to keep animals from ruining the insulation, so had the brainstorm of wrapping the pipe and running it through 4" PVC pipe (give me about 2-2 1/2 inches of insulation). Think this would keep me out of trouble? Another brainstorm I had (and need to open it up for a sanity check and/or fine tuning) is to use a small water heater tank (doesn't necessarily have to heat) and run the line to where I need it and from the tank and back to the tank with T's where valves are needed, and use a small circulation pump that either turns on at a certain temp or a timer every few minutes to keep the water from standing and freezing. I know that the smartest thing to do is to run the line in a ditch and use an underground shutoff, etc, etc..... But this is an afterthought and I have filled, levelled, and landscaped the area (got some big rocks in the way). Any advice would be really appreciated. Dave

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Bob Kerr

11-27-2007 21:21:29




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-26-2007 12:23:25  
I know it might be a pain to deal with on a daily basis, but I have used just plain ol garden hose and after getting done with it, unscrew it from the faucet and walk the hose down to get the water out, pick the hose up high enough and walk slow so it runs out the end. we just left the hose out all the time. In super cold weather we walked the hose down twice to be sure all the water was out. It was a temporary thing till we could bury the pipe in spring.

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Dave2

11-28-2007 01:35:23




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Bob Kerr, 11-27-2007 21:21:29  
Doing the water hose thing now and works fine. Just trying to get things set up better for the wife to be able to operate on her own for a while if necessary.



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Allan In NE

11-26-2007 17:41:41




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-26-2007 12:23:25  
What michael said.

At those temps, I wouldn't even mess with it; rig it to continually run a bit. It's got to get down to the -50s for running water to lock up. Cattle will keep it drank down too.

Use to live in a little trailer house shanty up in ND when I was dirt poor. Couldn't even afford a skirt for the house. Left the bathroom basin drip all night. Never froze and it got down to -30 and -40 some winters with some he!!aish winds.

Allan

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Michael Soldan

11-26-2007 16:09:12




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-26-2007 12:23:25  
Dave how much livedtock are you watering with this system? I used to set my water tank line to run into the trough in a stream about the size of a pencil..the running water never froze, even at -20*, the cattle kept the tank drank down so it never overflowed..and it never froze once..if you don't have enough stock to keep it drank down then the heat tape works well.



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El Toro

11-26-2007 15:15:04




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-26-2007 12:23:25  
You may want to consider using a coil of 3/8 copper tubing. It will furnish plenty of water.
Tape a heating tape to the copper tubing and then cover with some insulation. Then install this in plastic pipe for protection from rain. Hal



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Steven f/AZ

11-26-2007 14:17:13




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-26-2007 12:23:25  
I agree with the heat tape solution - seems to be the way many people are doing it.

I know on Dad's farm there is a heat tape on each one of the water fountain's feed lines coming up from the ground and we rarely have any issue with the pipes freezing up...



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Janicholson

11-26-2007 12:48:52




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-26-2007 12:23:25  
The easiest way is to run your two pipes as described with a single run of Frostex brand heat tape (it can be cut to any length and terminated as needed. It does not need a thermostat at all and just enough heat is applied to keep the pipes at temp, not more. It is the answer to many heat tape questions. Over that, just slip on the foam insulation fron the big box lumberyard of your choice. Much less complex and cheaper to operate. JimN

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Dave2

11-27-2007 00:15:13




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Janicholson, 11-26-2007 12:48:52  
Thanks folks. I've been trying to avoid heat tape (real pricey here in Germany) but may end up using it. I've got 9 horse stalls with a waterer in each one. The continuous stream isn't an option. Guess I'll get off my butt and fix it right and be finished. I hate to get off the bucks for 50 meters of tape, but it means no more flooded stalls and high water bills. Thanks for the feedback.

Take care,

Dave

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504-2

11-27-2007 16:44:07




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-27-2007 00:15:13  
Dave, One winter I had bought a new house trailer and the ground was frozen so hard that the plumber broke the chain on his trencher twice and said He would be back in the spring. He had the meter dug out so I ran 70ft of copper 1/2 and laid a heat tape and wrapped it with duct tape and no insulation on top of the ground and it never froze.



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Dave2

11-28-2007 01:32:19




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to 504-2, 11-27-2007 16:44:07  
I haven't looked at heat tape in several years because of the price here. Just looked online today and prices have dropped drastically. Used to be almost $8 a foot, now it's around $1.20 (gotta love competition and probably the chinese :) ). Looks like I'll be running more line than I originally planned with wall mounted waterers that save space, feed and water. I was working a bare minimum plan, but the price difference gives me some freedom. Thanks for the feedback! Now, what do you folks do to keep tanks from freezing that are away from utilities (assuming you have any)? Is there such thing as a 12volt heater that doesn't eat batteries.

Thanks again,

Dave

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Andy Martin

11-29-2007 12:12:39




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 Re: OT...Insulation in reply to Dave2, 11-28-2007 01:32:19  
There are tanks made which go into the ground four or five feet and use the earth's heat to keep the water warm. Inside out of the wind they might not need insulation.

To insulate a temporary water line I've laid square bales of hay on it. You've got to fence the stock away, but come spring you've got some mulch for the garden.



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