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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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A wont turn over fast enough to start

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flashback

11-24-2007 20:37:22




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OK, heres the way it is. New 6 Volt battery, 00 cables. Only use battery to start. Mag ignition. Battery fully charged, good tight and clean connections. Positive ground. The starter wont turn the engine over more than one rotation at a time. Before the 6 volt, it had a 12 volt battery and worked great. Now I have installed New 6 volt battery, new 00 cables a new 6 volt positive ground regulater, rebuilt 6 volt generator, all new # 12 wire . Could it be bad brushes in the starter? Please give me some direction.

If I install a 12 volt battery I know it wont charge the battery full but I can handle that. Will the 6V regulater work with the 6 V gen and 12 volt battery? I have quite a bit in the generator and would like to keep it.

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John T

11-25-2007 09:05:51




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
I think Im in the same camp as some of the other gents, 6 volts on a 12 volt starter (if it was converted or exchanged from a 6 volt) sure wont spin it very fast.

If you dont have a voltmeter or an ammeter handy Id turn the lights on n try n start her. If they dim wayyyyy yyy down badly Id suspect a starter issue like an armature problem or worn bushings, maybe the armature is even starting to drag. However if the lights dont dim much it may be a starter switch problem, although it can still be a starter problem like worn brushes or brush hold downs. I guess I'd suspect the starter LAST after switch problems or cables or connections or the battery.

John T

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flashback

11-25-2007 13:35:25




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to John T, 11-25-2007 09:05:51  
How much voltage would I have to have at the starter battery connection?.. I believe I take the starter off tomorrow and start there. Everything else is new or rebuilt and the connections are great.



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John T

11-25-2007 14:41:22




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-25-2007 13:35:25  
I'm NOT the man as far as havin any real hard n precise specs or data of that sort, the other gents may have some so I can only venture a guess and it depoends on the temperature n the battery n starter condition n the compression etc. (Im an attorney I love disclaimers lol) but that all being said Id say it should be around 4.5 to 5.5 volts when shes crankin (again depends on load n other conditions) but if she drops down to say 4 volts then theres a problem.

If all else is well like battery n cables and the engines not stuck, extra high starter current draw may be from a shorted or dragging armature or badly worn bushings.....Low current draw (lights dont dim) from a bad starter switch or worn brushes or they arent being held down tight or theres a commutator problem

Hope the other gents have some input on this voltage drop guess..... .

John T

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caseman-d

11-25-2007 08:17:41




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to the tractor vet, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
If you have a good 6 volt starter it will spin the tractor over fine. You may want to check the brushes and see how bad they are. Dad took ours apart and just cleaned it and that made a world of difference along with good cables.

caseman-d



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Janicholson

11-25-2007 08:21:05




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
I'll agree with the others. Use a starter draw meter on it to satisfy your decision. They are cheap at the parts store. They rest against one of the heavy cables and read in hundreds of Amps. If it is above 450 amps on a warm day, it is the starter. If it is above 550 on a cold day it is the starter. If it is less than 250, there is probably something getting hot from poor connection. JimN

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old

11-25-2007 08:01:08




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
Sounds like the common worn bushings and bad brush problem, or its a 12 volt start. Now days you can buy 6 volt or 12 volt starters and a 12 volt one will not work with 6 volts



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ShaggyM

11-25-2007 06:36:31




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
Make sure the flange on the starter and the bell housing are clean! The same thing happen to my B and it was on 12V and when I cleaned things up it spun right over.
Shaggy



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Steven f/AZ

11-25-2007 06:30:36




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
I'm with the others, the starter may have been re-wound for 12 volts or just might be plain worn out from use with a 12 volt battery.



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Fancy Farm

11-25-2007 06:21:06




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
Put the 12volt batteery back on



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teddy52food

11-25-2007 15:01:47




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to Fancy Farm, 11-25-2007 06:21:06  
You don't need a 12 volt battery to start an A. Get the starter, battery, and cables back in shape & it will start for another 50 years.



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Red Dave

11-25-2007 06:07:14




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
If all is as you say, then it sounds like your starter isn't working very good at all. While it was 12 volt could it have been rewound as a 12 volt starter by a previous owner?

Another thing occurs to me. Is your magneto set up properly? A magneto should fire just fine on one turn, after all, that is how it turns over when it is started with the hand crank. And an A with a magneto should start right off with just a couple turns with a hand crank.

Have the starter repaired, rebuilt, or replaced, but I suggest that you check over the magneto too.

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gene bender

11-25-2007 03:54:05




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
Sounds typical starter didnt turn over good so someone went to 12v. Starter needs good brushes,bearings and maybe commutator turned. I would get a new starter from a place in MINN. He has them on e-bay for 115.00 new and has warranty. I got one for a new engine and it worked super no core required.



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504-2

11-24-2007 21:14:11




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
I would guess bad bushings in the starter. A 12v battery spins a starter a little fast and sometimes too long and the bushings dry up.



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flashback

11-24-2007 20:54:44




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 Re: A wont turn over fast enough to start--electrical dilem in reply to flashback, 11-24-2007 20:37:22  
Need John T or any other of you electrical wizards.



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