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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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Ether or Starting Fluid?

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John in Mich

11-08-2007 06:42:00




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Not being that familiar with diesels yet, I was wondering if it makes any difference on my Model 784 International diesel if I use the Case IH ether (expensive) or just some off the shelf starting fluid (read cheaper).

I use WD40 on my small gas engines in lieu of the cheaper starting fluid as it works well and lubricates better than the starting fluid. Know I can't use WD40 in the diesel but what about the cheaper starting fluids?

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georgeky

11-08-2007 19:55:18




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
No difference between the two. 784 has ether injector, just push the button as it is turning over and it will start. Used properly it will not damage your engine. Been starting them for a long time with this system and don't have any addicted tractors yet.



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Steven f/AZ

11-08-2007 18:32:46




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
I prefer to give the engine a sniff of ether WHILE the engine is already turning over.

Our 1256 was so hammered out it needed either to start at anything below about 60 degrees! Glad we moved that one on down the line...



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nw_bearcat

11-08-2007 15:20:27




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
i've seen a few get vapor locked, not a good deal.

Also I've heard bad things about using either in small engines. We always used to use WD-40, and it worked great, but not long ago, a fellow told me to use carb cleaner to start the small gas engines with. the idea is that it will start it, and the cleaner will break up the gunk that is likely keeping it from starting w/o help.



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John in Ct

11-08-2007 15:15:12




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
My first response is to not use it because of the dammage it can cause but if you do use it, first crank the engine over a little first. Next squirt a little ether into the air intake then crank the engine. I think the air intake is a better place rather than the direct ether inject ( via a button) or the ether port so you don't have to get off the tractor) because if you squirt too much ether, by the time you get back on the tractor, some evaporated. I say, BUY A BLOCK HEATER!!!!!

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Hugh MacKay

11-08-2007 18:58:02




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Ct, 11-08-2007 15:15:12  
John: Here in the north country, many times I started my John Deere miles from any electricity. Yes, it had a block heater but you cant plug it into a spruce tree. That old Deere drank a good many cans of ether, but you know something, it went 13,000 hours to it's first engine rebuild. That is 3,000 hours more than I ever got from any other diesel and none of the other 6 ever saw so much as squirt of ether, very rarely were they ever started in winter. I will grant you Deere had the best system for ether, it's own spray nozzel in the manifold, plus the can didn't stay on the tractor. One took it to bed with him at night, carried it in his undershirt until he got to the tractor. Warm ether is very much more effective than cold ether. It used so little I've seen two cans last all winter, probably 100 starts anywhere from 20F to -35F.

Ether properly metered and it shouldn't go through the air filter. Direct spray into the manifold only way to go, but it takes a Deere spray, all other manifold spray systems I've seen are much like a garden hose nozzel. One of many items Deere had right.

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Hugh MacKay

11-08-2007 11:51:20




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
John: ether is starting fluid, starting fluid is ether, buy the cheapest you can and use it very sparingly and never with glow plugs.

Another good parctice with ether is keep the can warm. I never liked those injection systems with ether can mounted under hood. Warm ether is 3 times as effective, this is why I liked the John Deere system. You go to the tractor with can of ether from a warm building, keep it under your coat as you go. I once had a bet with a non Deere believer, he got up at 5am, -35F just to see me start the Deere with jumper cables or so he believed. Deere was a power shift so I pulled the disconnect lever for transmission. In the dark and back on I pulled the ether can from my coat, gave it a jab as it started cranking, it fired up, and I had to give it 3 more jabs to keep it running. Two days later, I heard at the coffee shop, my Deere started without ether at -35F, and without jumper cables. He never did see the ether, and I never said I used it.

Warm ether, almost as important as warm feet when you hop in bed to start the Mxxx.

Had a neighbor once, named Frank. He had to turn his steers out of warm barn for watering. When he was putting them in at dusk, two steers decided to give him the runaround. Frank went to the house, cold, cold night. At bedtime Mrs. Frank noticed the two steers in the moonlight. Frank assured her he hadn't forgotten and they would be ready to go in by now. Frank's feet got very cold on the trip to the barn. When he got back, jumped in bed hooked the toes from his size 14 feet under Mrs. Frank's night dress and planked his bare feet right in the middle of her back. She told that to the neighbors and was quite good natured about it. Bear in mind I'll not be trying that stunt.

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Doug N

11-08-2007 08:27:06




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
You can use it, but it almost seems they become drug addicts and require it all the time then.

Just a little shot will work. Too much will cause "ether lock". This causes the engine to completely stop when you are starting it. Could possibly bend rods.

Just give a quick, light shot in the air cleaner. Doug N



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RustyFarmall

11-08-2007 08:37:27




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to Doug N, 11-08-2007 08:27:06  
Definately be stingy with it. I"ve seen first hand the results of too much ether. 4 cylinder diesel engine on a combine. Stripped the head studs and blew the cylinder head completely off. Obviously the results of an un-educated operator, but be careful.



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Doug N

11-08-2007 11:08:57




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to RustyFarmall, 11-08-2007 08:37:27  
Yes, that's right. I forgot to add, DO NOT USE ETHER WITH GLOW PLUGS. If it has glow plugs, unhook plugs before you put ether in it.

A buddy of mine went to some Cat school or something, and they demonstrated how an engine can be blown apart with ether. They had this engine behind bulletproof glass, shot ether in it, hit the glow plug switch, and BOOM. The glow plugs ignited the ether and blew the heads off a V-8 diesel. Very dangerous combonation, ether and glow plugs. Doug N

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LenNH

11-08-2007 08:04:26




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
Just bought a small (Ford 1100 2-cyl) diesel.
Had trouble starting it yesterday in quite cool weather. What is the technique for starting a diesel with starting fluid? Can you use too much and blow something?
Thanks



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Richard Lee

11-08-2007 10:44:17




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to LenNH, 11-08-2007 08:04:26  
I also have a 1110 Ford diesel, use the glow plugs and full throttle, mine starts even at -15.



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dhermesc

11-08-2007 08:15:13




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to LenNH, 11-08-2007 08:04:26  
Just a "sniff" of either. To much will easily ruin an engine - especially over time.

Does an 1100 have glow plugs?



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Bob M

11-08-2007 06:51:32




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 Re: Ether or Starting Fluid? in reply to John in Mich, 11-08-2007 06:42:00  
John - Far as I am aware all aerosol starting fluids/ethers pretty much the same.

I have long purchased/used the cheapest stuff I can find and have never had any problems.



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