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cub problem. HELP!!!!!

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russ hamm

10-18-2007 07:15:49




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I sure don't claim to know it all, but can sure usually get a tractor running. LOL. A friend bought a cub a while back, and after installing a battery, we drove it on the trailer. It ran good as advertised. Unloaded it, and parked it in the shed. He tried to start it a week later, and nothing happened. We noticed the carb was warped, and the bolt mounting hole threads were bad. Resurfaced the carb and re-threaded the holes. Noticed the compression was low, so he and another guy honed and ringed it, ground the valves. The mag spark was a little weak, so he got another mag, good spark. Still no start. Checked the timing three times now, went through the carb three times, removed the manifold and checked it over, looks good. We have good spark and timing, but no gas in the cylinders when we pull the plugs. Primed a couple of cylinders, and notta pop. I DUNNO!!!!! !! Cubs seem to do this to me. I still suspect the carb, but does anybody have a clue why????

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Farmallb

10-19-2007 19:03:32




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 07:15:49  
Im kinda like you with my Cub. Ive had it to 4 so called machanics, one a car machanic with a 6 bay garage. It runs, but just barely. Im pretty sure if I get it running, ill get to looking for something else to replace it. Ive had the starter rebuilt 3 times from being burnt up trying to start it. Had to replace the L rear drop axle after trying to pull it to start it. Turned down the crank, replaced the timeing gear, put new bearings on crank and connecting rods 3 sets of plugs as it wont do anything if the plugs get wet with gas.

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Gene

10-18-2007 18:06:15




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 07:15:49  
Check for compression first. Then check the magneto installation. Could easily be 180 degrees out of time. Check for vacuum on the manifold side of the engine

The C-60 engine is a flat head. The valves are under the spark plug hole. The screwdriver trick on locating TDC won't work.

If the tractor ran prior to being worked on the timing gears are more than likely in the correct sequence. Look at the magneto drive gear. The slot should be 2 o'clock (top) 8 o'clock (bottom).

If the pulley has two timing marks. TDC mark is the 2nd mark as the engine rotates the pulley past the pointer.

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El Toro

10-18-2007 17:52:26




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 07:15:49  
third party image

Here's The Cub's cam gear installation view. Hal



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El Toro

10-18-2007 17:40:41




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 07:15:49  
You can check what Scotty recommended by bringing No1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke. Then look at the rotor to where its pointing. It should be at the No1 plug tower. Hal



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ScottyHOMEy

10-18-2007 16:23:44




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 07:15:49  
The things the other guys have mentioned are SURE worth checkin' out first. I'll say that again before I'm done.

It sounds like you know what you're doing, and that gives me an awful feelin' that when they put her back together after the bore job, there's a possibilty that the timing gear train got put back out of time.

The Cub has an idler gear in that train that the ABC's don't, and the timing marks for the cam and governor drive gears are on the rear of those gears. Possible somebody missed those, or one of the others.

I worry a little also because I saw a thread the last night or two (admittedly about a newer tractor that I have no experience of) that was advising to center the tooth with the single punch mark into the notch on the next gear with two marks. I bit my tongue, because I don't know the engine they were talking about, and that may have been just right in that case. But on the Cub, one lines up to one, two to two.

Obviously, PLEASE, eliminate every other possibility before you chase after this one, as it could mean an AWFUL lot of work just to check it out. Yeah, I've got an awful feelin', but it may be, and I hope it is, something much easier.

The easy ones are the easiest to overlook!

Keep us posted.

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russ hamm

10-19-2007 11:39:35




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to ScottyHOMEy, 10-18-2007 16:23:44  
Thanks scotty. I too have an awful feeling now that you guys mention the idler gear. I also asked him this morning if he remembered to stagger the ring gaps, and he said "i think so." LOL. He said they had 70 on the compression check the other day. When we turn the engine over with the crank, the piston JUST goes past TDC when the mag impulse clicks, so i think the gears are set okay. HOWEVER, like you said, ALL possibilties are worth checking at this point, it's gotta be something simple or something we are missing.

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El Toro

10-18-2007 15:30:55




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 07:15:49  
third party image

Are you sure it was timed on the compression stroke with No1 piston at TDC? Hal
PS: Check that suction on the carb when you hold your hand over it when cranking. Make sure the valves have enough clearance too.



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russ hamm

10-18-2007 15:53:06




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to El Toro, 10-18-2007 15:30:55  
Thanks guys. Hal, we have the hood and tank off, so we can actually see when the valves open and close, and when the piston is up, etc. So timing was a breeze, although i did go through it several times just to make sure. I'm leaning towards vacumm loss, although we did check the draw at the choke end on the carb with it turning over. It's the darndest one iv'e ever run across, and i wish i could have been there for the whole job, could have helped as it surely is something simple. I have worked on everything from a 30-60 aultman taylor to an 806, and never had such a headache. Heck, it won't even fire for him with a squirt of ether. I'm gonna check the fuel system tonight (A- GAIN) LOL. May have a beer if it runs and swear off of cubs forever.

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El Toro

10-19-2007 18:46:56




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 15:53:06  
Hi Russ, Did you get the Cub started? Hal



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El Toro

10-18-2007 17:34:18




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 15:53:06  
Are the plug wires in this firing order?
2-1
4-3

When you hold your hand over the throat of the carb your hand should become wet with gas. This should pull the atomized fuel into the combustion
chambers too. You need good intake manifold vacuum to do this. Run a compression check on the engine.

When cars and trucks used mechanical fuel pumps we used that procedure to see if the fuel pumps were bad. You could actually start them as long as you kept that carb covered. Hal

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Janicholson

10-18-2007 10:03:31




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 Re: cub problem. HELP!!!!! in reply to russ hamm, 10-18-2007 07:15:49  
I'll add to banjo's good advice that vacuum is a good thing.
Put your hand over the intake of the carb while cranking. If it sucks hard, the valve timing and intake integrity are probably good. If still nothing, squirt a teaspoon of fuel into each cylinder, then give it a go. JimN



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