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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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856 engine -407

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stumped Decorah

10-16-2007 20:30:10




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Did an overhaul on engine with new sleeves & pistons. Had sleeves replaced at machine shop and pistons fit.Tractor ran only 65 hrs. after overhaul and started to brake the top of sleeves on every cylinder, where the sleeves put in too tight or were they too loose? Anyone else ever had this happen?




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Steven f/AZ

10-17-2007 19:25:28




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to stumped Decorah ,Ia., 10-16-2007 20:30:10  
A 414 will fit, but you will just about need a 1086 donor tractor for the frame rails, bellhousing plate, throttle linkage, and a bunch of other stuff... I think the tin might be a challenge to fit after that as well.



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stumped Decorah ,Ia.

10-17-2007 17:37:43




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to stumped Decorah ,Ia., 10-16-2007 20:30:10  
Thanks guys for the info thats also my problem, all the good machine shops around here are gone and a couple of the others wont touch these engines either. Will a 414 IH engine fit the 856, Im kind of gun shy on rebuilding this engine again or what would you guys do?



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K.B.-826

10-17-2007 20:16:40




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to stumped Decorah ,Ia., 10-17-2007 17:37:43  
414/436/466 series will fit with some work. They're a bit wider, so like Steven said you need 66 or 86 series frame rails. Then you need to figure out how to get your front bolster to fit between the wider frame. Then you need to figure out all the other little modifications that come with a repower. I've always thought that the 407 was a better engine, but like you're finding out it's expensive and complicated to work on. Go to your nearest Case-IH dealer and talk with them, maybe they've got some ideas on how to get the old 407 going.

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the tractor vet

10-16-2007 21:59:20




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to stumped Decorah ,Ia., 10-16-2007 20:30:10  
Yep KB almost hit the nail on the head . If one does not know these engines then all he is building is a handgernade . Ya have to remember that that engine is OLD . And when i do one of them ya have to do EVERYTHING . Line bore the mains then wright off the bat ya bore the block to .010 over and do the bore off the center line of the crank. Next ya just dust the deck and i do mean dust the deck with a rotary brouch , then ya recut the contour bores and make sure that the sleeves are set dead on as with this engine there is NO repulling sleeves and re shimming them . Then after ya PRESS FIT each sleeve ya check each and every hole with a dial bore gauge from top to bottom all the way around as the sleeves will wrinkle while being pressed in and to correct this ya have to run a rigid hone thru each and everyone. Then ya fit each piston to the hole that it is going into . Then ya put the rest of the engine together . When ya build any 361-407 ya do it like you are putting together a race motor . This is not and engine for the DIY guy or just any Tom Dick or Harry machine shop to build . After she is back in the tractor ya just don't go out and put it on the plow or chisel or the chopper or a disc. , not for the first 30 hours even then ya hold your breath . I liked doing a run in on the dyno for atleast 8 hours at the shop at varying loads and rpm's . Then at 50 hours have the tractor brought back in and retorque the head and reset the valves . You are not the first guy that this has happend to . I had a guy come in and wanted me to rebuild his 806 and when i gave him the price he did not like mine so he just knew that he could do it for less. Well after five blocks and five trys all ending the same with a blowen engine before he had fifty hours on each of them he gave up and brought me a well used up D361 and said go for it 3250 bucks later he was up and running and that was 15 years ago and it is still going like the Pink Bunny.

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Steven f/AZ

10-17-2007 11:01:07




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to the tractor vet, 10-16-2007 21:59:20  
TractorVet, I hope that someday I have the $$ to buy an 806/1206/1256/1456 and have you go through the engine for me... it would be a tractor to last my lifetime, then!

Keep up the great help!



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the tractor vet

10-17-2007 15:33:37




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to Steven f/AZ, 10-17-2007 11:01:07  
That would be fine but the big problem we are having around here now that the TWO best machine shop that knew how to do this work are now gone and the rest i would not trust to do a valve job on a briggs and stratton . My good life long buddy that had Dick's Engine service had heart problems and tryed to let his son run it well he was not even a Zit on the old man's donkey and Dick offered it to me but where was i going to come up with a half Mill. And the other guy ended up with a noise candy problem . And the rest will not do the job the way ya want it done . Now even have a hard time getting a step flywheel done wright even when ya take the spec's with ya . Tryen to get a head done with the valves set at the correct stand out or recession ya best take your massure tools with and do your owen checkin when picking it up.

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Steven f/AZ

10-17-2007 15:46:12




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to the tractor vet, 10-17-2007 15:33:37  
Yep, down here in AZ I found one machine shop I trusted with a flywheel cut, but I don"t if I would let them do any engine work...

Back in ND I had two shops in town that were really good, and another that was really cheap for the rough jobs. One of my true tests was when the really good shop pressed a snowmobile crankshaft apart and together to replace the main bearings. Gotta get it together straight so it holds up at 9000 rpm!

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K.B.-826

10-16-2007 21:08:39




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 Re: 856 engine -407 in reply to stumped Decorah ,Ia., 10-16-2007 20:30:10  
The bores of these blocks are known to get egg shaped. That's why they have .010" oversize OD sleeves avalible. The proper fix would have been to line bore the block to take the oversize sleeves. You'll need to use a machine shop that knows the 407. It's about the most touchy engine there is when it comes to sleeve fit.



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