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Farmall & IHC Tractors Discussion Forum
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How many horses...?

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Andy Schuppert

09-26-2007 16:25:36




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Can any one tell me how many horsepower there are in an
1. C
2. Super C
3. H
4. Super H
5. M
6. Super M
I"m just curious as I have a friend thinking about a Super C.

Thanks, Andy




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Len Rahillyf

09-27-2007 13:41:17




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 Re:How many horses...? in reply to Andy Schuppert, 09-26-2007 16:25:36  
Nebraska Tractor test summaries used to be available on the web. You could try U. of Nebraska test site. Unfortunately, the last time I pulled this up, there was nothing more than the "rated h.p." The real Nebraska tests are mines of information. You get MAX h.p., which is all the tractor can do, and RATED H.P., which is what the manufacturer claims the tractor will do with a certain amount left over. This was a kind of insurance against overloading. Back in the 20s, 30s and 40s, if you bought a tractor rated at 10 db hp, for example, you knew it would pull a 2-bottom 14" plow at about 3 mph (I'm using numbers that were applicable back in the 20s, 30s and 40s; plows were designed to be used at about that speed). A tractor that would be rated at 10 hp would probably put out around 15 at MAX H.P. An interesting factor is the wasted power on steel wheels (probably 35% on average). This meant that the engine had to put out a lot more power just to get the rated h.p. AFTER subtracting the wasted power through the wheels and lugs. This is why early tractors always had two ratings (10-20, for example). When tractors began to be designed primarily for rubber tires, which waste a lot less power, the engines could be made smaller and the difference between engine/pto/belt h.p. and drawbar h.p. was a lot less. Compare a Farmall H with its displacement just over 150 c.i., with a 10-20, which displaced over 280 c.i., whose horsepower, at much lower rpms, was about the same as an H. When I was growing up, we used a rubber-tired F-12 (rated to pull 1 16" plow on steel) to pull 2 12" plows. Our steel-wheeled 10-20 would pull
2 14" plows, but not much more than that. The F-12, in other words, was doing nearly as much work as the 10-20, using less gas, and was a lot easier on the old backside (in my case, the young backside). Recent Nebraska tests show that rubber-tired tractors, properly weighted to reduce slip, put out almost as much horsepower on the drawbar as on the PTO, because the tires produce less "rolling resistance," as the engineers refer to it.
Some agricultural college or university libraries have the original Nebraska tests on their shelves. Unfortunately, I don't think Nebraska ever published the complete tests. CF Wendel published the tests, but did not reproduce the tables; occasionally, some of the results got overlooked and are missing. Still, it is one source of information.

A note on horsepower versus torque. The old tractors I describe above usually had huge engines that ran at slow speeds. Their torque was tremendous, but because of the slow speed, not a lot of horsepower was developed. With the development of "high-speed" engines, displacements went down. A tractor like a Farmall H produces almost as much h.p. as a 10-20 or F-20, but by running a smaller engine much faster. When a 10-20 or F-20 is overloaded, it will slow down, but usually manage to keep on running. A small, high-speed engine (F-12, F-14, H, for example) will stall out much sooner when overloaded. I've spent hundreds of hours on 10-20, F-20, F-12 and H, and I've experienced this many times. The smaller engines pull fine when up to speed, but die out pretty quickly when overloaded. The H could actually be stalled out when heavily overloaded, but the F-20 and 10-20 would just keep on chugging. A C or SC compared to an H or SH would have the same problem--the horsepower might be there, but the torque wouldn't.

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Chuck46

09-26-2007 20:14:04




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 Re: How many horses...? in reply to CNKS, 09-26-2007 17:51:14  
Hi CNKS, Where do you find the factory ratings, do you have it for the WD9? I have ran one since 1968, have seen the Tractor Data rating of 42 drawbar and the Nebraska belt at 46. Had mine on the dyno once, it had 72 at 540. All it has ever had to supe it up is the 4.5 inch pistons. Always thought they were way under rated. Chuck



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Hugh MacKay

09-27-2007 03:07:15




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 Re: How many horses...? in reply to Chuck46, 09-26-2007 20:14:04  
Chuck: Of the 16 new or near new IH tractors my dad or I owned, I've only seen one that didn't exceed the IH ratings, as they came from the factory.

Some of them exceeded the manufacturers rating by as much as 25%. The only disapointment was a farmall 504 gasser.

Over the years I've talked with many other farmers, technicians and mechanics and the general consences was IH was the one manufacturer you could depend on to exceed the hp ratings. This is what put them on top, sales wise through the 40s, 50s and 60s. Had they got their act together sooner on 3 point hitch, improved TA and IPTO, they could have stayed there

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chuck46

09-27-2007 20:11:39




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 Re: How many horses...? in reply to Hugh MacKay, 09-27-2007 03:07:15  
Hi Hugh, When I was young I drove a lot of different tractors for neighbors. As much work as we had at home my dad encouraged me to, he said I would learn more than one way of doing things. Close to home Farmalls were the most popular, a lot of H's which I found the biggest difference in, some of them didn't have much. At one time there were 4 MD's within 2 miles, 2 of them are still here. A few miles South you were not allowed unless you owned an Oliver and North all the Norwegian's had JD's, the more I drove them 2 cylinders the less I liked them. I found there was quite a difference within the same models no matter what make they were, how well they were tuned, tires and weight, and then some were never updated with high comp. heads, cold manifods etc. My WD9 didn't do what I thought it should at first until I welded 6 inchs into the rims and went from 16.9 to 18.4-34's, I was not disapointed again. My dad's H is a 42 model, it came on steel and burned what Dad always called Power Fuel. When he put it on rubber he welded on 11 inch rims. Overhauled it in 49, told the mechanic he needed more power. He changed the head, manifold, and camshaft. IH sold a cam then that had more power yet than the one in the later models. I have yet to see another H that will keep up to it. In all the years I have found the biggest difference is in how any tractor is equipted and maintained. I have seen you talk about cockshut tractors, that is one I have never been around. Have a good day, Chuck

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Hugh Mackay

09-29-2007 03:08:08




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 Re: How many horses...? in reply to chuck46, 09-27-2007 20:11:39  
Chuck: Those Cockshutts, and I'm talking about the Cockshutts built by Cockshutt between 1946 and early 1960s, were one mean tractor on a drawbar pull. The very first 30 came off the assembly line in 1946 with IPTO. They had excellent engine and pto hp for jobs like baling. The 30 would take an H on both drawbar and pto, it didn't look as heavy either. The 40 would out pull a Super M. They had full IPTO 8 years before the SMTA came along, and in my opinion it was a better IPTO than IH had.

The Cockshutt down side was hydraulics, very slow, not many gallons per min. They wouldn't run more than implement cylinders. Most Cockshutts with loaders used an add on crankshaft driven front mounted pump. Cockshutts had a nice seat, but it wasn't positioned right, which caused operator platform to be cluttered. This resulted in a very clumsey tractor to drive. You just couldn't see your work and surroundings as well as you could from a Farmall.

Takes me right back to my old saying, " Out of the 8 or 10 manufacturers of the 40s, 50s and 60s, I've never seen a tractor that didn't have at least one feature I liked, yet as of 2007 no one has built the perfect tractor." In fact I think reliability has gone down hill since 1980. I base that on the fact, I see far too many new tractors letting the owner down during the busy season.

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Andy Martin

09-26-2007 19:41:34




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 Re: How many horses...? in reply to CNKS, 09-26-2007 17:51:14  
Of course drawbar horsepower is less than engine horsepower due to gearbox losses. I think some newer tractor ratings use engine HP, maybe even like cars where they rate the engine with no accessories, even no water pump.

I have no trouble using an M to pull a 60 hp or 65 hp rated implement.



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Andy Schuppert

09-26-2007 16:36:28




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 Re: How many horses...? in reply to LinemanFarmer, 09-26-2007 16:30:38  
Great suggestion, I'll check it out.

Thanks.



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