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OT: Question about Truck engine

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chadd

09-07-2007 06:35:54




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We have a 1993 Chevy 1500 with the 4.3L V6. We bought the vehicle about 5 or 6 months ago and recently, it has begun to make a loud tapping noise. It goes away when coasting and gets louder with an increase in load on the motor (like when accelerating). I have no idea what type of oil it has in it, as I haven't changed it yet (although I am guessing 5w30 or 10w30). I noticed that the valves are not supposed to be adjusted, so I am assuming it must have hydraulic lifters. Could this be caused by a damaged or plugged lifter? Assuming it is, how bad is it for the engine to be run this way (we are planning on doing some towing with it this winter)? Is there any way to troubleshoot them? Lastly, is the only way to remove them to remove the entire intake manifold and the plate underneath it; or can they be pulled out through the pushrod hole in the head? Thanks for any info.

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Doc Larry

09-07-2007 20:28:25




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
As several have already stated, you aren't hearing lifter noise. And as several have already stated, an exhaust leak is most likely because it is always more pronounced under load. Along with rod bearings, of course. But we'll assume you're not that unlucky.

My flex plate did break once. It didn't sound anything like lifter noise.



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leroy in ne

09-07-2007 20:26:03




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
another possibility loose spark plug. some times a short length of hose can be used as a stethoscope to isolate noises, wrap hand around hose and hold hand to ear while moving other end to various locations on engine leroy



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Brownie450

09-07-2007 20:02:33




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
If it has a vibration dampener on the front of the crank, check it for looseness in the rubber area. Second thing is to take off the fan belt & start it up to rule out accessories --water pump--generator---power steering also the belt itself---pulleys / tightener. The vibration dampener/ pulley / hub might be loose or cracked.



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Janicholson

09-07-2007 13:44:55




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
A cracked flexplate on the crank bolt circle can make that noise. A tough sound to Isolate. JimN



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Tallperson

09-07-2007 09:43:26




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
Allen you have my vote.. The GMC products are very prone to exhaust leaks that sound like a knocking lifter... Tallperson



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Bob

09-07-2007 08:21:47




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
A lifter "tick" would NOT get noisier with an increase in load. 99% chance you can rule out the lifters.

Start by checking the timing (with a light), following the specified procedure, and also take a look at the 'puter with a scan tool, looking for codes pertaining the ESC (Electronic Spark Control).

If the knock sensor is defective or disconnected, the ESC won't be able to sense any spark knock, and the 'puter won't know to retard the timing as needed.

Sometimes, guys will pull the plug on the knock sensor on a worn engine, to keep the 'puter from "hearing" noise from a loose timing chain or piston slap, ind interpreting it as "spark knock", and therefore, retarding the timing.

Another thing that will cause detonation under load on these engines is a plugged or otherwise non-fuctional EGR system.

Unless you can determine it IS something simple like an exhaust leak, I guess the best advice would be to have a mechanic look at it, as continuing to drive it with it knocking will destroy the engine, if it's not too late already.

Another note... it the "check Engine Light" coming on, indicating trouble code(s) have been set? Does the check engine light come on when you turn the key towards "start", or has someone removed the bulb?

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chadd

09-07-2007 09:20:21




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to Bob, 09-07-2007 08:21:47  
I just noticed an inaccuracy in my post. It doesn't really get louder as I apply more load, it just goes away when it is coasting and then comes back again when I accelerate. I don't know if that matters or not? It is always the same volume when it is occurring. There are no trouble codes in the engine computer except for the usual end of list code indicating the ECU or EPROM is working (I checked it with the shadetree mechanic method of shorting the scan post to ground in the OBD test socket. However, this means I can't view real-time data. There is also no "check engine" light on, and I know it works, because it came on when the fuel pump relay failed.

I always thought valvetrain noise got louder when the engine is placed under a load. Whenever I listen to an old gas tractor climbing a hill or pulling a heavier load, to me it always seems like the valvetrain gets louder or more pronounced and you hear more of a tapping noise instead of the humming of the motor. When they hit the clutch, it seems as though the tapping quiets down and then the humming is what you hear. Where do I have it wrong or what causes that perception?

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Ron in Nebr

09-07-2007 07:56:11




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
As an answer to your last question, nope, the lifters won't come out through the pushrod holes. Gotta pull the intake manifold.



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Jim Becker

09-07-2007 07:31:45




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
This is just a guess. Since the sound increases with load, could it be spark knock? Maybe it has a detonation sensor that has gone bad.



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chadd

09-07-2007 09:45:30




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to Jim Becker, 09-07-2007 07:31:45  
What I meant when I said it gets louder under load is that if I am coasting or just feathering the gas pedal, it sounds normal. When I reach a hill or step on the pedal a quarter or more, the ticking instantly reappears. The volume never changes. What I typed didn't exactly match what I meant to say. Our old '71 International 1600 Loadstar with a 392 V8 made a similar noise right down to the throttle on-off behavior. We never had it fixed, but I don't know if it had solid or hydraulic lifters either.

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Allan In NE

09-07-2007 07:07:25




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
That sounds like an exhaust leak; probably at one of the donuts?

Could be a lifter, could be flywheel too.

Even tho they have hydraulic lifters, they still need to be adjusted from time to time ('bout every 80K miles or so).

Allan



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chadd

09-07-2007 09:33:18




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to Allan In NE, 09-07-2007 07:07:25  
I had thought of that, but what is odd is that it seems at idle that it is only one or two occurrences and the truck is very quiet except for the tapping. If I idle the truck around in drive, it isn't a continuous noise like every lifter is ticking or one bank of cylinders is louder than the other. Instead, it seems to my very untrained ear to only occur at half of the speed of the engine speed, and it only occurs twice throughout the firing order (hence the reason I thought valvetrain). The first one is a loud tick then a split second later a tick occurs that is half as loud, and then it is just the hum of the motor until the next tick. The loud one is regular, but the second is somewhat intermittent. I thought maybe it needs adjustment too, but the chilton service manual it states that the valvetrain requires no periodic adjustment unless the heads are removed or the rocker shaft is removed.

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RustyFarmall

09-07-2007 07:41:30




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to Allan In NE, 09-07-2007 07:07:25  
Ditto on the exhaust leak.



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Waldo, Whariz

09-07-2007 06:48:26




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 06:35:54  
If it's got lifters loud enough to make a racket, it probably doesn't have enough oil pressure to keep them lifted.


Are you sure it's a lifter making the noise?

You could take it to a couple shops and let them give you their free evaluation.


If it's a automatic, the flex plate on those can crack and make a knocking sound, but that's usually more of a knock as apposed to tapping sound.

If the exhaust manifolds are leaking, or cracked, they can make a tapping noise.

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chadd

09-07-2007 10:18:28




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to Waldo, Whariz, 09-07-2007 06:48:26  
The oil pressure is decent. The recommendation is that at 2000 rpm it should be 15 psi or something. I don't have a tach, but at low idle (idle is around 625 or so if memory serves me right) it is 18 hot, and at half throttle hot it is in the 30s and 40s. At start-up it is at about 50. Also, it doesn't sound to me like all of them are ticking, just one or two. when it is idling in drive, it is hummmm TICK hum tick hummmm (repeat)
When you are accelerating on the road, it is just TICK,TICK,TICK,TICK,TICK,TICK,TICK (repeat)

I am not sure it is a lifter making noise, the reason I posted was to see what people would come up with that would explain the symptoms. It does sound like it comes from around the valve cover/ head/ manifold area, but it is hard to tell. The noise isn't a knocking noise, it is similar to a person tap dancing under the hood. I'll have to check the exhaust gaskets and manifolds, but, darn , it seems that the engine is too quiet for that. You can barely even hear the engine noise over the tapping unless you really step on it. Thanks for the input.

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Allan In NE

09-07-2007 10:31:26




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to chadd, 09-07-2007 10:18:28  
Chadd,

Open the hood, have someone powerbrake it for you and then give it a listen.

Everything you've said so far really, really does sound like an exhaust leak. But, we just aren't there to hear your noise like you can. :>)

Allan



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chadd

09-07-2007 10:47:02




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 Re: OT: Question about Truck engine in reply to Allan In NE, 09-07-2007 10:31:26  
Yep, definitely going to have to give it a try. Thanks for all your help.



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